Blue Jays 7, Braves 2

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Horacio Ramirez gave up four runs, but his other stats were very good — five innings, eight strikeouts, four hits, one walk. Go figure. Zach Miner continued to show that he’s not ready, allowing three runs. The good news was that Danny Kolb threw a scoreless ninth, and also that Roman Colon had one perfect inning. I think Colon (who has a 1.13 ERA for the spring) is definitely on the team.

Chipper had two hits, as did Eddie Perez. Andruw and Jordan did not play; Langerhans pinch-hit unsuccessfully. Esix Snead was 0-3 and hopefully will do that a couple of more times to get him thoroughly out of the Braves’ minds.

54 thoughts on “Blue Jays 7, Braves 2”

  1. I’d have to agree, Mac, I like Colon as a middle-reliever or setup man. He’s impressed me with his stuff since I first saw him pitch last season.

    I could do without your comments about Esix Snead. Hoping for minor failure because you think it might be bring greater success to the club is a perverse idea and corrupt logic. I think…

  2. I’ve also liked Colon since last year, and agree he’s pretty much a sure thing at this point.

    I doubt Snead every really had any shot anyway, wouldn’t worry about that.

  3. Again, Raoul, remember the DeWayne Wise debacle. This isn’t Brian Jordan — this is a player who has never hit and certainly never will, but a fluky .320 could put him on the team, and the Braves might give him 120 ABs like they did Wise.

  4. Well, Mac, that still doesn’t convince me that minor failure benefits the club. You’re suggesting that his performance needs to decline so he doesn’t take a spot from someone performing worse than him right now. Terrible logic, no matter how fluky or funky his performance has been. I commend Snead for his efforts and if they continue I want him on the team. It’s not like there’s some all-star getting the shaft here.

  5. Mac, you say “this is a player who has never hit,” but that’s obviously not true. You don’t know where he’s at, he could have adopted a new approach and that’s why he’s hitting well. My only point is: if he really sucks, it will show again and the problem will take care of itself (e.g. DeWayne Wise). If somehow he’s improved, then the Braves have another asset. Wishing for his failure is counter-productive and absurd.

    You may argue: where did playing Wise get us? Nowhere.

    However, who else did we have in place of Wise or even Snead now? I think good production out of these prospects, no matter what level, is a good thing.

  6. Snead is not a prospect. You are buying into believing that 30-odd ABs in the unusual circumstances of spring are more important than almost three thousand at-bats in a long minor league career. Snead’s been in the minors since 1998, and he’s hit .230/.318/.297. He can’t hit, and people don’t learn to hit at age 29. But the difference between .300 and .230 in a spring sample is tiny — two hits in thirty at bats. That’s nothing. But it’s enough to sometimes make a team think that a player has made a leap forward, and he can lose a couple of games for them by the time they figure out he hasn’t.

  7. I fairly certain that Bobby Cox can do a much better job than you determining whether or not his hitting is a fluke. Hitting is not JUST a skill that takes years of practice to perfect. Hitting also requires confidence, setting, and mental and physical health. Again, you DON’T know Snead, so you DON’T know what is figuring into this current streak. It’s not like Spring Majors and worse than the minor leagues. Your logic is flawed, no matter how many old stats you cite.

  8. Also, any player with prospects of entering the MLB is a PROSPECT. I don’t care what age or performance standard you are asserting, in terms of language it makes absolutely no sense.

  9. I see your point, Mac, about putting faith into a player who likely won’t maintain that level of performance. I just don’t trust your judgement in this situation, given that you are just analyzing stats and going by your gut. I trust guys who watch him and talk to him everyday a lot more. Your assuming also that Cox’s playing Wise was based on a miscalculation of talent, when I think it was more based on him being in the final year of his deal. The Braves wanted to see if he was worth keeping and they also didn’t have anyone else they were willing to pay good money to play backup. They also wanted to create good trade bait, it didn’t work, but it didn’t really hurt the Braves. And if I rememeber correctly, Wise’s only AB in the playoffs was a double that started a comeback rally in Game 2. Again, how did the Braves lose in this situation?

  10. Raoul, past experience shows. Over a larger period of time, a ball player will show his ability. You can have a good period over a small number of bats, but if your batting average is freaking .230 over 3000 atbats, I think that shows what kind of player you are. It’s not like he can make up for it with walks or power either.

    Bobby does get the benefit of the doubt in my eyes in many ways, but some of the things he does with roster construction seems off such as using middle-infielders as primary pinch hitters…

  11. Raoul, Esix Snead cannot hit. But just as Mac said, a fluky spring can create the illusion that he can. If two of his hits became outs, he would be hitting .230-.240. But he isn’t, he is hitting .320 with way too much luck. Wise couldn’t hit either, but there wasn’t anyone else that could anyway. Snead, can’t hit, but Langerhans, McCarty, Jordan and Mondesi can hit a little. If Snead makes it, that means one of those four don’t, and that’s just absurd and counter-productive. And while one of those four are in AAA proving they can hit, as Langerhans and McCarty have, and Jordan and Mondesi at the major league level, Snead will be in the majors coming back down to earth, and costing the Braves meaningful games, all because a couple grounders had eyes and a few pop-outs became bloop singles in those Spring Training games that have no bearing on the regular season record. If you’ve watched the same Snead I’ve been on ESPN this spring, you’ll see that whatever you think has changed in him, whether it be his confidence, setting, and physical and mental health, hasn’t. He still can’t hit.

  12. Appearantly, braves management is too stupid to know about small sample size and how Snead has never hit before. I mean, they’ve only been in this business, successfully, for how long? Seems to me you people are jumping the gun. Snead’s not going to make the team over langerhans.

  13. Look, I’m not here to defend Snead, if he was great he’d be in the league. I’m just annoyed that stat-boys hope for the failures of ACTUAL Braves players. We’re all fans, not ballplayers. Wishing failure on anyone, especailly a Brave, is absurd and counter-productive. Let’s have Bobby make the decision. I just don’t want sick and perverse wishes to be fomented against my team.

    Plus Rob, if you read my post effectively, you would see that I already processed the thinking to Mac’s point, I just don’t agree. So thanks (I guess) for rehashing that. I just won’t concede the fact that wishing for minor failure helps our team. It’s stupid. Snead playing well CANNOT hurt Atlanta, our coaches are good enough to know which outfielders to put out there. Well, at least better than me, Mac, or Rob here.

  14. If these games counted, I wouldn’t be rooting against him. There’s no positive here. If he gets lucky in ST, he might make the team, but he won’t stay lucky any more than Wise did.

  15. Again, Mac, isn’t that the reason for coaches? To think through these situations? I still see no honorable justification for your rooting against him. It’s a little bit sick, that’s all.

  16. I hope that Snead and all the other players do well. Rather than wish any player do poorly, I prefer to wish that the coaches put together the best team.

  17. Esix is really just meat space at this point, doesn’t matter if he’s in the big show or not. Too bad, because he certainly makes the 2005 All-Name Team.

  18. whew – it would appear the apocalypse has now been successfully avoided and all’s right with the world again. You had me scared for a sec, R.D. :)

  19. Thank you, Grst. Nothing wrong with a little blind faith in your favorite sports club. As for our daily lives…well we went through that…

    Also, I have to know, was does “Grst” mean? Honestly, I’m just curious.

  20. Sorry, Spike, I didn’t know good, clean free-thinking had such a dramatic impact on you.

    I’ll try to keep it more simple for you for now on. =)

  21. I’ll try to keep it more simple for you for now on.

    If I never read another post from Raoul Duke it would be one too many. If your posts were any more simple-minded your brain would fall right out of your head.

  22. Sorry about that last post Mac. I just read the religous thread and am bummed I didn’t get to tear apart Raoul arguments before you shut it down.

    My bad. So back to the neverending “Is it ok to root against a Brave” arguement…

  23. Actually, the apocalyptic joke was simple-minded.

    C’mon, nyb, we squashed it. We all had ample time to chime in on the religion debate if we really wanted to.

    Also, I would accept your criticism of me as “simple-minded,” if anyone actually used logic or something close to it as evidence for their religious claims. There can be faith in a higher power with logic, believe me, there are plenty of us.

  24. Also, I have to know, was does “Grst” mean? Honestly, I’m just curious.

    Hehe, it doesn’t mean anything. It’s just a nick name my friends used.

  25. That’s cool, my friends gave me a racist nickname, so I’ll refrain from sharing it =(

    I need new friends…

  26. I just saw this funny bit on the FSN Baseball report. Chipper was talking about how Adam LaRoche never remembers his at-bats and goes to the plate as a brash youth. Chipper talked about wanting to wring his neck, because Adam once responded to a question about his gameplan against Roger Clemens: “I don’t know, I’ll just try to go out there and hit a fastball if he throws it.” The way in which Chipper said it and imagining young LaRoche saying it just brings a smile to my face. The Braves are such great guys…

  27. Even though the Braves recieve unjust criticism for only winning one World Series since 1991, this is truly the greatest Baseball organization to root for. I’m not embarrassed to say that I cried myself to sleep the night of Game 7 in 1991. I thought Smoltz pitched like a hero that night and that still stands as one of the greatest performances I’ve ever seen. Smoltz couldn’t have been better going against one of his former-Tiger heroes.

    And even though most of you hate me or disklike me, I’m proud to be a Braves fan with all of you…

  28. Not that I’m trying to stir up anything here, but Raoul said that “we squashed it”, referring to the topic in the last thread. First of all, who is “we”? Who else was arguing your point? Wasn’t it just you? We also didn’t have “ample time” considering the fact that most of us have a life outside of Braves Journal (which, by the way, is the most informative and entertaining Atlanta Braves website I know of. Thanks Mac ;) ) and thus can’t spend our time arguing a point on a forum where you are going to convince no one of your point. That’s precisely the reason I didn’t respond.

    Speaking your general posting, Raoul, you may actually get somewhere with your thoughts and opinions if you presenting them without providing unnecessary sarcasm and arrogance and tearing down of other people’s views, whether it be Christianity or the quality of Esix Snead’s baseball skills and the effect his success in Spring Training has on the Braves. Alright I’m done guys, I swear…

  29. Thanks for the tip, Rob…but you are trying to stir it up again.

    Now just drop it…It’s getting old hearing people make claims about what they would have said to me…you had time (especially you Rob)…plus you did respond (although you claim you didn’t)…let’s talk baseball, shall we?

    I don’t know about you all, but when I sit around and think freely about the quality of the Braves, I get really excited. Instead of worrying about production from key positions, all we have to worry about is health. Our starting pitchers look tremendous, Smoltz looking the best. Our hitting is out of this world right now, the lineup is going to be fierce. I don’t mean to gloat, well yeah I do (that’s why we make pretentious predictions), but I rememeber calling a big year from Andruw. Obviously the year hasn’t begun, but you have to be mentally impaired to not see how he is killing pitches.

    The only obvious issue is the bullpen and with struggling at the back-end, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mazzone shake things up. Maybe we can acquire a Red Sox reliever, they only have a handful of good relievers. Someone mentioned Kim, which is not unrealistic. I would rather get Foulke or Williamson, but these are pipe dreams. Maybe we could send ’em Reitsma, for more reasons than one =). I don’t mean to be picky about our already great situation, but I cannot help but notice the championship potential this club has.

    Is anyone else ready to move on to baseball?

  30. I do have to apologize to Jonathan for misinterpreting the writer he cited yesterday. I insinuated that he was making a snide generalization about Nat Henthoff, when he was really only trying to give a descriptive title of Henthoff’s ideological disposition. I’m sorry, Jonathan, that was out of line.

    Please accept this apologize as also being an invitation to end this insanely polarized debate.

    Also, before I forget, Go Univeristy of Arizona!!! Beat the living snot out of the Illini!!! U of A

  31. I heard a trade brought us bullpen help, but no details. Has anyone heard anything? BTW, I enjoy Raoul, Rob and grst’s posts. I think this is much ado about nothing. Why couldn’t Snead have been a shortstop, his first name would have been a natural.

  32. The same Nat Henthoff who writes (wonderfully) about jazz? You learn something new every day.

  33. R.D. – I appreciate what you wrote about my comments about Nat Hentoff. That was my point exactly, that he is a writer that avoids an easy categorization – I was not trying to belittle him. Spike, I’ve not read articles by him about jazz, but, given the breadth (and depth) of his knowledge, it does not surprise me.
    And, R.D., tough luck on the Az game…maybe next year :-)

  34. “Free Speech For Me…” should be required reading for anyone with strident political views. I think of it often when taking part in politically charged discussions. It’s a real eye-opener to see how we can willingly blind ourselves to tactics (i.e. censorship) that we simultaneously decry in others and participate in ourselves. Good stuff.

  35. Re Greisinger. This is really weird. I was at a pitching clinic in the Northern VA area about two weeks ago. They were using a video of a pitcher pitching, that they had filmed at their facilities, who had been working out there this summer: to show proper balance point, followthrough, etc.

    The pitcher was Seth Greisinger. I recall that he was the no. 6 pick overall and Detroits’ first rounder when he was drafted. Hurt his arm and had some sort of surgery, who knows? Maybe a pickup, but I hope Betemit isn’t the PTBNL.

  36. Thanks, Jonathan, it was a really tough game.

    How you blow a 15-point lead after looking so dominant, I will never know…

  37. I think Greisinger tore his labrum, but I could be wrong. That injury tends to rob pitchers of a lot of velocity – it’s rare that anyone with a history of labrum surgery ever finds the stuff they had before.

  38. Raoul-

    Easy there, Turbo. Maybe you should try only posting some of the things that come into your head during the day. It’s not so much the stridency or self-righteousness as the frequency that bothers me. You’re almost to the point of spamming Mac’s comments – it’s his blog after all.


  39. I like to read Mac’s blog. As a frequent reader, like most everyone, I have an interest in wanting the signal to noise ratio to be high. Posting 20 comments to one post is noise. It means that even if I choose to ignore RD’s posts, I have to scroll past a lot of them to read the other stuff. It’s basic internet etiquette not to flood people with multiple posts.

    Anyway, it’s Mac’s site not mine – no desire to get involved in an argument, just offering my opinion, which is that as another member of this online Braves community I would prefer to see other people post thoughtfully and only when they have something new to say. In that spirit, I’ve said my piece.

  40. Ditto there on Matt’s thoughts. Long posts are fine, even enjoyable, but this is a blog and there is a “Preview” button. Clicking it before “Post” is a good habit to acquire, because those extra seconds tend to chill the the mindless, mean-spirited instincts that reside in all of us (or most all of us).

  41. Everyone lighten up, I was just making a joke. Honestly. It was actually funny, considering the past couple of days.

    I didn’t realize a little humour would get everyone’s panties in a bunch, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

    Did anyone see Mexico dominate the U.S.A. in football yesterday? The Azteca was rocking and the U.S. couldn’t keep up with the much more fit and athletic Mexican team. The Americans thought they could play denfensively with two holding mid-fielders, but Mexico just ran right through their defeneses. The Americans finally got a goal around the 60th minute, but after that it was another 30 minutes of watching Mexico practice crosses in the Ameican 18-yard box. It was funny to listen to listen to Marcelo Balboa badmouth the Mexican team and accuse them of diving, when Cherundolo and Landon Donovan looked like the softest players ever to don an American kit. Just when I thought the Americans were about to begin an era of dominance against Mexico, they get absolutely dominated at the Azteca. Marquez, Blanco, and Borgetti looked great. Viva Mexico!

  42. Any way for us to ignore this jerk Raoul? He adds nothing to this discussion. Guess what luser, we heard you the first time. “Oh, let me change the subject to Mexican soccer. That’ll take the heat off.” No, it just makes you look like more of a donkey.

    Now on the subject of wishing failure upon Braves, I think it is OK to wish a Mack truck on Reitsma. Any Braves fans out there whose souls are already lost and are thinking of committing suicide? Please take Reitsma with you on your way out. Oh, and Raoul, too.

  43. All our real athletes are playing other sports. The soccer players are mostly fourth-tier guys who couldn’t hack it in football or baseball and are too short for basketball. And I am closing this thread. Everybody play nice.

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