See the 44 Greatest Atlanta Braves here.
No. 42: Martin Prado
RH Hitting, RH Throwing Infielder/Outfielder
Braves Seasons: 2006-2012
.295/.345/.435, 52 HR, 286 RBI, 355 RS, 109 OPS+
In a 2007 update to the 44, Mac opined that if he redid the list, Jeff Francoeur would likely have to fall in in the thirties somewhere. I was surprised at the relatively high ranking, as Jeffy was easily Mac’s favorite punching bag. After I actually wrote up Francoeur for this list, I realized that I just couldn’t do it. With all due respect to Mac, that comment was before a disastrous 2008, when his OPS fell to .653 and the Braves in desperation sent him in midseason down to Mississippi to relearn to hit, and a half season in 2009 that was of similar stinkage. I don’t think Mac would put him on the list now, but in any event, Martin Prado was much more deserving.
Martin was signed as a free agent by the Braves from his native Venezuela in 2001 at age 17. He progressed somewhat slowly through the minors (he didn’t show up for rookie ball until the 2003 season). He had a cup of coffee with the big league squad in 2006 and again in 2007. In 2008, he played half a season, slashing .320/.377/.461. It wasn’t until 2009 that he recorded 500 plate appearances. He hit .307 in that year and the identical number again in 2010.
He was an all-star for Atlanta in 2010, when he also finished ninth in voting for the NL MVP, which is a tribute not so much to his statistics as a nod to his value in doing it while playing multiple positions. Over his seasons with Atlanta he played:
209 games at second
191 games at third
15 games at short
56 games at first
222 games in left
1 game in right
The value of a guy who can play four or five positions, and well, is not truly appreciated, primarily because it’s so rare. Back in the 1960s, it seems most team had one of these guys. Bert Campaneris, Cesar Tovar, Cookie Rojas, and even Pete Rose come to mind. Usually, though, the superutility guy was a banjo hitter, Pete Rose being an obvious exception (though Tovar could hit decently as well). Later on, it was guys like Tony Phillips and Jose Oquendo. The last Brave before Prado in this mold was probably Jerry Royster, who is sometimes derided on this board, but a guy that I think was actually a pretty useful player. Remarkably, the Braves were doubly blessed in having Omar Infante, a fellow Venezuelan and a nearly identical player, at the same time as Prado in 2008-2010. Infante played every position Prado did for the Braves, plus a few games in center.
The benefits of a superutility player are obvious: the ability to dance around injuries to regulars, to give everyone days off, and also to craft lineups to fit a particular opposing starting pitcher. But in Martin’s case, you weren’t penciling in some Punch-and-Judy hitter like Don Kelly or F.P. Santangelo to fill out the lineup– you wanted Prado in the lineup, every day, somewhere. This guy was hitting leadoff or second, even third once in a while. That is a huge asset to a manager. It’s also quite an asset to the front office, when you’re thinking about free agents and trades and bringing guys up. The knowledge that you can plug a player like Martin into any of three or four positions permits significant creativity in how you assemble the rest of the lineup.
Martin was probably best suited for third, but played them all competently (although he was a bit of a stretch to play SS). He also did it while hitting like a machine, which is why the Diamondbacks wanted him in the Justin Upton trade. He was sent to Arizona with Randall Delgado and some minor leaguers for Upton
and Chris Johnson.
Of players eligible for this list, his .295 batting average ties for sixth with Felipe Alou. He trails Chris Chambliss in Atlanta Runs Created, but his versatility in the field give him the nod over Chris. So Martin is New No. 42, above Chris Chambliss, who slides from Old No. 36 to New No. 43, and Ron Reed. Ron Reed now is 44th, the last man in.
Martin as a Brave exuded an earnest, striving love of playing baseball, and fans who watched him recognized it and appreciated him for it. It was such a joy watching him get better and better. I hated seeing him get traded — in retrospect, seeing him go was the canary in the coal mine.
Well Wilson likes him even if Rawlings doesn’t: http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7417714/v529087083/overall-defensive-player-of-the-year-simmons
So, uh, don’t stock up on too many Christian Bethancourt jerseys.
I wonder if the Braves feel like buying two catchers is cheaper than buying one. Maybe AJP can handle 100 games against righties and they can sign someone who can take the other 60 against lefties. If AJP signs for what he signed for last offseason, then this could be a very inexpensive catching duo.
Glad to see the first real deal in place.
@mlbtraderumors: Per @jonahkeri, #Braves in trade talks with a yet-unnamed NL West club. A few names/needs upon which to speculate: https://t.co/s9690Q9q5o
Simmons.
Taking the Gold Glove loss to heart.
@mlbtraderumors: #Braves talking Andrelton Simmons trade w/ NL West club, per @jonahkeri. #SFGiants have been ruled out. The latest: https://t.co/s9690Q9q5o
So they aren’t looking to upgrade their defense?
For the love of all that’s holy, can we just hold on to this one guy?
Good Lord, the Braves just want there to be no reason whatsoever to watch them in 2016.
Dammit Edward, why’d you have to give them ideas? If they trade Simmons, my only remaining reasons for continuing to be a Braves fan will be Freddie Freeman and you guys (unless we get Nolan Arenado).
A year late on moving Simmons. He would have fetched a ton before the book was closed on him ever learning to hit.
According to DOB and Peanut, the Braves are not close on anything and are at least giving off the general impression that they’d have to be blown away.
Does blown away mean we get someone’s third best pitcher that currently is undergoing TJ?
If we move Simmons and get Jimmy Rollins and a AA lottery ticket, I vote we change the site to “Royals Journal”
Simmons age 25 line (and his career trajectory) match pretty closely with Shawon Dunston.
Dunston
.249/.271/.357 .627 OPS
Simmons
.265/.321/.338 .660 OPS
They also both hit 17 home runs in their age 23 season and then had a power regression.
If he is a better fielding Dunston, I don’t think that’s a bad thing…
We trade Simmons and I’m done with the Braves.
@13, 14- Reminds me of one of my favorite Arrested Development jokes: “[Michael takes a phone call.] That’s great; I knew she’d work out. Uh huh. You keep forgetting to say ‘away’. [Michael hangs up the phone, turns to George Michael.] The new hire is working out great. Apparently she’s blowing everyone away.”
Look everyone, maybe this will all work out! Anyway, we want them listening. We don’t want them dealing for no good reason, but we want them listening.
Corey Segar had better be the one buying a house in Atlanta.
Not Andrelton. Don’t do it.
Andrelton’s fun to watch and his contract should create a bunch of surplus value even if he never hits, but he’s not Mike Trout. Let’s not go crazy. I’d be intrigued to see what boatload of young talent we could get for him.
I don’t disagree with you at all, Adam R. But that said, my instinct tells me that ‘fun to watch’ is more valuable than you’re giving it credit for.
Yep, Andrelton’s a step too far. Anyone who wants to cheer for laundry exclusively, be my guest – I’m not interested in it. I get that the fans of mid-market teams have to be ready for attrition when home-grown players approach free agency, but dumping guys with multiple years of control left is a slap in the face of fans. They’ll pull the same shit when the current crop of prospects has been up just long enough for attachment formation, and we’ll start all over, all while our hotel-porn-baron owners cry poverty on a highly profitable, equity-building enterprise. Eff that.
I’m not trying to sail the Journal into a storm of depravity here, but I’ve got to know: are members of the Braves ownership group hotel-porn-barons?
Trading Andrelton is a lot different than moving Heyward or Upton a year away from their FA. Its different than moving a great closer on a terrible ball team. The Braves give us 2 reasons to go to the ball park right now. 1 of those is watching Andrelton play defense. If our goal is to structure our organization like the Royals and to be contact hitters who play great defense it makes no sense to move him.
They say we want to get younger and play that great defense, but then they sign Markakis to a 4 year deal. They refuse to play Bethancourt in a lost season. They trade Alex Wood and Jose Peraza for a 30 yr old rookie that might not pan out. Now they are discussing moving Simmons. Now they are discussing letting Adonis be our starting 3B and are also discussing trading Maybin so we can start the corpse of Michael Bourn in CF.
@23 Liberty Media was basically the company that sold porn in hotel rooms for a long time. They have a lot of other assets now but that was their core business.
@24 Yep
@24 – Whereas Maybin’s only ‘mostly dead’.
@25 – Well I’ll be.
Sometimes threads need Sam Hutcheson, and this is one of those times.
Andrelton’s a 2-4 WAR player on a good contract. If that nets us Corey Seager and Julio Urias, sign me up. How about we wait until he’s traded and then see what he’s traded for before melting down?
The return’s irrelevant. Stop trading the whole effing team away.
Let’s put this another way: this offseaon, we’re all sort of sitting here saying we have holes all over the field, and nobody knows what to do about it. Some people put perhaps too much stock in Jace Peterson or last year’s outfield crap-fecta, others in Olivera panning out, etc, but the general consensus is, it looks really bad all over the place, and it looks really bad for 2017.
Some people have even floated the idea of blowing it up completely. Well, this is it. One way to get a bunch of good, cheap, young players who will be major league ready in 2017 is trade from your few assets that have significant value.
Big difference between trading away older assets or guys with little team control left, though, and dealing a young, affordable star who is signed through 2020.
I mean, sure, there’s some return that would probably justify it. But it better be a helluva return.
@29 – Keep the young, projectable, HOF-level defense that’s one of two things that you could possibly be interested in watching at a Braves game, then commit to building from the minors with your supposed all star scouting team and the crap load of broken-armed prospects you already sold everyone’s favorite players for. If the rebuild plan depended on junking out Andrelton, then there’s zero excuse for not doing it sooner. This is either desperation, a slap in the face, or a desperate slap in the face.
I honestly have on idea what their plan is at this point. 2016 is gonna be a tire fire of a season.
I think it’s too early to jump to conclusions. If they’d be giving Simmons away, sure, I’ll be mad, and I’m certainly getting tired of trading our entire team away. But if this is a huge trade that packages Simmons with some of the dead weight to get us some serious talent and flexibility back, then so be it.
@33 You’re suggesting they package away some of Simmons value to dump bad contracts? Just… why? Why do you want that?
@31, You’re arguing for something that’s arguably longer and more painful for us all. What you’re proposing won’t get us there in 2017, and if we’re not reasonably close to there in 2017, it’s going to get a lot uglier in a number of ways.
I guess that’s your cue to copypasta corporate ownership complaints…we get it, and we agree. The timeline still is what it is, so Coppolella may now be acting accordingly.
I don’t think there was much harm done in keeping Andrelton another season. Teams knew what he was before 2015; it was basically just us wishcasting on his hitting. Anyhow, yes, Markakis and Olivera look like screw-ups to me too. Yes, our upper-level pitching prospects don’t look particularly strong. Again, it is what it is. If Andrelton can fetch a suitably large return that helps put us back on track, I don’t see why we should turn it down just for the sake of going down with the ship. You can’t even argue for sticking with the plan without beginning to deride it in mid-sentence. Is that not a sign that we should make some kind of adjustment?
@34
Honestly, I don’t know. If they see something on the FA market that fits their needs better, then maybe this is their way of adding the payroll room. I don’t know. We really don’t know anything as it is.
@35 – Andrelton is the kind of piece you WANT on your rebuilding team. Unless you think we’re going to fleece someone and get more value back from him than he’s worth, which there’s ZERO reason to expect, then you’re just shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic in a way to maximize fan misery. If you get back prospects, you’re getting back prospects that are super unlikely to help by 2017 anyway, and certainly not prospects that will fill the huge gaping hole at SS you’re creating in the process.
Keep the young, good, controlled talent. If you don’t keep it, there’s no point in getting it in the first place.
For the record, I think the Braves have a plan and have tried to stick to it, but they haven’t executed it well, which is a different thing.
I think they thought Markakis could do more to keep us from being abysmal. They probably misjudged his recovery timeline/how quickly he’s declining. Tell me again how he’ll put the team on his back and prevent a culture of losing from taking hold in the clubhouse…
Likely that Olivera was also a mistake on the player evaluation side for all the reasons we’ve discussed, but I can see the rationale: get a cheap, adequate player at a position that’s tough to fill in exchange for a prospect that could be at the peak of his value and a pitcher who also seems to be in decline (I don’t necessarily buy the “injury waiting to happen” part). And then spend elsewhere. They just misjudged the player.
I have basically gone along with the FO so far saying that they have a plan and they’re smarter than I am. If they trade Andrelton I’m not sure on either front.
Per Joel Sherman, Mets asked asked about Andrelton and were told the price would be Harvey or deGrom.
@38
Yeah that whole blow up 2015 plan went fantastically well, huh. It’s time to get rid of everyone in the organziation, blow it all up. They’re just grasping at straws now.
“The timeline still is what it is”
Is it, though? Are we sure that a willingness to deal Andrelton doesn’t come from a recognition that the first phase of the timeline was botched by the very moves you cited, extending said timeline and turning Andrelton from an anticipated cornerstone to a tradeable piece?
@37, Teams that are in the right place on the win curve (e.g. the Dodgers) very well might give us back more near-future value than he’s worth. What he brings now to teams trying to win-now is worth more to them than even to us. It happens plenty.
I would pull the trigger to get a couple topline offensive prospects currently in AA or AAA and maybe another MiLB player thrown in. You create one hole, but have filled two.
I want Roman Abramovich to buy the Braves and start firing people after the first 3 game losing streak. These guys have way too much leeway and job security.
Shortstop is a hard spot to fill on any roster, and Andrelton’s a very good one, and for reasons that none of us comprehend (except perhaps the Royals? http://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/royals-play-small-moneyball/) I think there is something valuable–like, on the field valuable rather than just box office valuable–about players who are enjoyable to watch.
But we have holes everywhere. If trading one very good shortstop might net us two pretty good players elsewhere on the diamond–with those two players scouting department-approved–then you do it.
This is baseball. Everyone takes turns hitting. The ball gets hit everywhere on the field. LeBron carries his teammates to the finals in a way that Mike Trout and Bryce Harper can’t due to the nature of the game. You want to keep a guy like Andrelton–I want to keep Andrelton–but this is a case where (the right) two players are better than one.
I doubt very much that it’s worth dumping him for just prospects, though.
@41, I suspect that part of why the rebuild feels disjointed is that Hart had more authority at one point and now Coppolella has taken the reins to some extent.
Olivera was supposedly Coppolella’s brainchild. Not encouraging.
@42, Who knows, maybe you’re right. I definitely can’t figure out how they planned to pull this off. Nobody here seems to have any idea either, but what do we know?
Here’s a recent example of my @43. In 2014, the Orioles, who won 96 games, traded Eduardo Rodriguez even after a spike in velocity at AAA, and with all that team control, for Andrew Miller, who pitched like 20 awesome innings for them and walked at season’s end.
Was it dumb? Yeah, from one perspective. But also in a way, it makes sense for teams to go all-in sometimes. The Orioles were about to lose a bunch of their impact players, so they decided to go for it.
I could get behind a Simmons-for-Harvey deal. Not sure if the Mets would…
Let’s help the Marlins solve their feud with Scott Boras: Simmons for Ozuna and Fernandez. Get it done, Coppy!
I swear though, the first time Simmons robs us, I’d cry.
@48: Adding another post-TJ surgery pitcher to the roster for the best defensive SS in baseball? Hmm.
The return is never irrelevant.
“The return’s irrelevant. Stop trading the whole effing team away.” That’s a well-considered and reasonable response, if I ever heard one.
The Mets asked and the Braves replied “DeGrom or Harvey.” But we’ll go ahead and keep pretending they’ll ask for a Low-A power hitter with huge K issues and a B- relief pitcher.
There is a difference between trading guys a year away from free-agency and trading a guy with years of control. In fact, there’s MORE THAN ONE difference. One of those differences is the value of the return. If one year of Heyward gets you Shelby Miller and a pitching prospect, 5 years of Simmons gets you more than that.
I think it speaks volumes that none of us know what this FO might trade Simmons for, but we’re against it, because history indicates they’re getting 65 cents on the dollar and a scratch-off ticket for him.
You guys talking about clearing imaginary payroll space are adorable. They didn’t spend their alleged budget last year, and they won’t this year.
The Angels are now in on Simmons. They really don’t have anything I want.
The Angels have Mike Trout. I want Mike Trout.
@55, Seconded.
I don’t wont DeGrom. I don’t want Harvey. I want Andrelton. That is my final offer.
I would assume Mike Trout is untouchable.
I would take deGroom for Andrelton if the Mets ate Swisher’s deal too.
From that Simmons post:
The Braves are known to be shopping expensive veterans Nick Swisher and Michael Bourn, though neither player is a desirable asset considering the $15MM each is owed in 2016.
Won’t you guys love it when the return for Simmons is “salary dump”?
Braves Journal will keep publishing, but this is the official opinion of this blog:
I’m always in the minority here, but SS defense isn’t why I’m going to the park or tuning it for Braves baseball. I want to win. If trading Andrelton helps us win, then do it.
I would hope that every team has a vision for their roster. The Royals clearly have a vision, and so do all of the other teams that year-in-and-year-out are successful. The Braves had a clear vision in the 90s, and you could rattle it off in about 3-4 sentences. This team has altered its vision heavily in the last 12 months, and therefore, any player in the previous vision is susceptible to be traded. Freddie, Simmons, Teheran, and the, like, three other people in the organization that are still around could be traded this offseason. I just want to clearly know what the vision for the team is. I’m tempted to think it’s actually pretty similar to the Royals, but we just have no clue. So when Simmons is rumored to be traded, we think, “WTF? This doesn’t make any sense. Simmons is actually a good player.” But it really depends on what they’re trying to accomplish with their roster, and they’re not doing a very good job of explaining where all these strokes of a brush (the trades and moves) fit in the overall painting.
Frank Wren: “Miss me yet?”
@62
Good point.
I assumed we were building around Simmons, Freeman, Miller and Olivera at third. That would be a solid core. But now I’m not sure what we are doing.
I understood the winter trades. I was okay with the Olivera deal, until he moved to left.
Now we have a hole at third. We are trying to create one at short. We have a 40 year old catcher, two OFs that will eat up a third of our payroll to ride the pine, questions at second with no end is sight. On top of that we have a bunch of #3 starters that are injury prone or have a some other issue.
I’m not sure how this isn’t a five year rebuild. I don’t see how we are contenders in 2017.
I assumed we were building around Simmons, Freeman, Miller and Olivera at third. That would be a solid core.
But it’s not a solid core. That’s part of the problem. The supplementary pieces are also not up to snuff, which you’re more or less pointing out. But when was the last time a team contended with three 3-4 WAR players as their best players?
Just gonna leave this here and watch the unraveling:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/pondering-an-andrelton-simmonsyasiel-puig-swap/
Won’t you guys love it when the return for Simmons is “salary dump”?
1. Trade Simmons for Something+Salary Dump.
2. Move Jace Peterson to SS (his natural position) until Albies is ready.
3. Use Salary Dump to sign Jason Heyward.
I would literally pop popcorn before logging into the Journal that day.
The Chris Johnson deal, in its shift of dead-weight payroll obligations from 2017 to 2016, was a giant “WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE 2016 SEASON AND ARE PUNTING AGAIN” flag.
You guys who are expecting payroll commitments and FA moves to offset salary dumps and a real effort to contend in 2016… again, you’re adorable. The tumbleweeds will be blowing through the soon-to-be-abandoned building and they’ll float by on revenue sharing money and reduced payroll to turn a profit in the absence of gate revenue, which profit is the highest priority on display here.
The longer-term baseball ops problem is, Punt 2015 and Punt 2016 don’t immediately lend themselves to Contend 2017, especially when Punt 2015’s big-ticket acquisitions are already on the wrong side of 30 and don’t appear to have been terribly well-chosen. So this Andrelton thing feels desperate, like the writing is already on the wall for Contend 2017 and now it’s time to pawn anything smacking of present value and just go all-in for Contend 2020 or something.
It’s probably unfair, but I just assume the people absolutely certain that every move the Braves consider will be horror and catastrophe upon the franchise are the same folks who want to fire Mark Richt.
I think everyone should take the time to read the FanGraphs link from Adam R (@65.) Unless you’re just locked into the “don’t care, want my Andreltons forever” position, it makes quality points. Here’s the nut graph on Simmons:
@67- Right. “Start Putting a Good Team on the Field 2016” lends itself to Contend 2017. I’m optimistic, however, that the Braves have not gone into Punt 2016 mode. I’m not sure how they’re going to do it, and I’m not overly optimistic they’ll get most of whatever they do right. But I get the feeling we’re not punting like we did last year.
So this Andrelton thing feels desperate, like the writing is already on the wall for Contend 2017 and now it’s time to pawn anything smacking of present value and just go all-in for Contend 2020 or something.
Literally the only thing we know so far is that we asked for Harvey or DeGrom when the Mets came calling for Andrelton. How does that fit into your narrative?
“Trading SS Simmons Would Be an E6 for Rebuilding Braves”
http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/atlanta-braves-andrelton-simmons-trade-rumors-hot-stove-defense-shortstop-ken-rosenthal-111215
They could have had $7.5 million in “dead money” (CJ, still useful in the right platoon but whatever) for 2016.
Instead, they volunteered for $20 million dead money in 2016 (Bourn + Swisher – Cleveland’s offsetting money).
Bourn and Swisher are problems entirely of the FO’s own conscious making. They’re pretty much committed to eating them, and eating 2016, in search of brighter tomorrows, no? That’s pretty much a Punt 2016, right?
I don’t think those two contracts are standing between us and trying to get the most we can out of 2016.
Yup. Those contracts don’t even prevent us from improving at the positions Bourn and Swisher are slotted to play.
This is Fan Me, not Think Critically And Analytically About Winning Me. Don’t trade Andrelton. I’m not hyper-sentimental when it comes to baseball players. When Smoltz left, it was sad but, you know, whatever. I get it. But don’t trade Andrelton when he’s still capable of doing incredible things.
When he’s 30 and isn’t a year away from rolling out three careers worth of highlights in a single season, maybe I’ll feel differently. I already watched perilously few Braves games last year. Take away Andrelton and I doubt I’ll even care enough to watch the condense games.
@74/75
So they’re going to improve those positions then?
They’re obviously going to try to improve on Bourn and Swisher. It’s not like the front office isn’t aware of where the holes are.
@77, Yes, or some other ones. And if not those specific positions this offseason, then maybe during the season, or during the next offseason.
The problem with the whole corporate ownership dystopia rag is that it is largely accurate but not all-encompassing. We’ve seen the team, under Liberty Media, make an actual, credible attempt to compete within whatever (non-fan friendly) limits have been set for it.
It’s not as though the Braves behave like the Marlins. And it’s not as though they’re not actually going to try to improve.
Yeah but now that Olivera is a left fielder they have him, Markakis, Maybin, Bourn and Swisher to play 3 positions plus if they ever want to bring Mallex Smith the majors. Even if they wanted to improve them it will take trading away one of the crappy contracts first just from a sheer numbers prospective.
It’s not like Bourn or Swisher’s performances are going to preclude them from being benched, worst case scenario, if we acquire a better player and can’t move either.
And if the Braves don’t get to it until next offseason when they really only have to deal with Markakis, so be it.
@61
I know you weren’t being literal, but watching SS defense, Simmons’ in particular, is one of the great joys of going to the ballpark. TV compresses the distances involved, and you can’t watch the entire play unfold.
@69
I find the “win-now” point curious, as the Braves are manifestly doing anything but trying to win now. And while aging patterns are always in play, Simmons gets the genius exemption. His skills will erode, but the greats erode more slowly and from a higher peak. Hell, Alex Gonzalez was flashing serious leather for us at age 34. Simmons at 30 will still amaze.
I will vomit if we trade Andrelton. And then I will puke.
However…it does kind of make sense to trade him when your best position prospect in the organization is a shortstop. It probably made even more sense before we traded Peraza.
@83
But he is still 2-3 years away. I bet he starts in Mississippi though.
@83: What good is Simba? He didn’t even win the Gold Glove this year /sarc.
@84, but we are also 2-3 years away :*(
…at least by my figgerin’
P.S.: I saw this comment on the fangraphs article:
—————————————–
In that Tango piece you linked, he mentions that the 22-24 decline in shortstop fielding is unregressed to the league average rate and is due to selective sampling. When he adjusts for this, he gets a peak from 24-28. Here’s a quote from the second to last paragraph:
‘“On average, shortstop fielding prowess peaks no later than age 28. Recall that, in the first (unregressed) table, the peak age was around 23. So, the true answer lies somewhere between these points (without regression and with maximum regression).”
So I don’t think Simmons is as due for a defensive regression as you seem to think he is.’
——————————————
24 seemed a little young to me too
..was interested to read Mets lost interest in Simmons when we said either Harvey or deGrom…
i think this is ass backwards, should be Harvey AND deGrom and here’s why…
we give up the best SS in baseball, WHO PLAYS EVERY DAY, whose arm is virgo intacta, not rejigged, for ONE of these guys who plays 30 innings a month, deo gratia, on retreaded strontium…
I really don’t see this at all…maybe it takes the British perspective to evaluate…we always were pretty good at the obviously perverse.
so, make that three…
Andrelton Simmons
if ever his talents just dimmens
just trade to the Mets
the Viking, Dark Knight and the one with his hair all in nets.
After seeing him play last season, Ozzie Albies is a tiny little man. He looks like the type of guy that would have a hard time getting the ball out of the infield. Baseball ref has him at 5’9, 150 at 18 years old. Call me crazy, but I don’t think we should be anointing him the SS of the future quite yet.
You’re right. There’s just so little (no pun intended) to be optimistic about in our position prospects.
I find the “win-now” point curious, as the Braves are manifestly doing anything but trying to win now.
Really? Trading Alex Wood and Jose Peraza for a Major League ready slugger(*) isn’t “win now?” Resigning AJ Pierzinsky for his offense isn’t “win now?” We have yet to see the rest of their winter moves this year, but the last couple of moves they made do in fact suggest that 2016 is a “now” they would like to at least try to “win.”
(*)ignore for the moment disagreements about Olivera’s talent and upside and simply note that the franchise seems to think he’s a ML ready slugger now
I think they’re trying to remain a purchasable product while going about the business of rebuilding. But the specific phrase “win-now” has always connoted mortgaging the future for an immediate run at a pennant, to me.
Resigning AJP is not likely to turn out to be any kind of “win-now” move. The guy is a 39 year old catcher. The OPS+ he put up last year was at least 20 points above his trend line.
If the plan here is to build around young pitching, then you need to have good gloves behind them. That was the idea in ’90-91 offseason. Keep Simmons.
Jesus H. The fanbase has been through enough already.
So – Corey Seagar and Yasiel Puig for Simmons. Who hangs up first?
94 – Dodgers would
Dodgers. No way you get that as a 2 for 1 for a no-hit SS.
Supposedly Andrelton has been traded to the Angels.
Aybar and who? Ugh….
Anyone have a spare rope?
This is bad.
“Halos shortstop Erick Aybar is among the players who will be headed back to Atlanta, MLB.com’s Alden Gonzalez tweets.
Lefty Sean Newcomb and righty Chris Ellis are also going to the Braves. The pair were the two top-rated Halos pitching prospects.”
Copollela/Hart….asses.
@Joelsherman1: #Braves trade Simmons to #Angels for Newcomb, Ellis, Aybar and about $3M
STOP! STOP!!! FREAKING STOP TRADING FOR PITCHING PROSPECTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AHHHH!!!!!!!
WHY?!!!??!?!??!!?!? WHY DO WE NEED MONEY!!!!! WE’VE GUTTED THE FRANCHISE TO SAVE MONEY!!! WHY MORE??!?!?!?!?
OK I’m done.
Screw the Braves.
Is this all to spite Wren? Dump all his extensions?
Angel fans are pissed so who knows.
This return is garbage.
Hot, flaming, stinking garbage.
They don’t want anyone to watch this team next year. They’ll get their wish.
deGrom, Harvey, or a B-prospect.
I’m happy for Andrelton. He’s going to go to a team that has some interesting contending. He’ll get to play and play well and have some hope of postseason opportunity. That obviously ain’t happening around here for many years.
Sad day. Sad fucking day.
What are the Johns playing at? Seriously?
*FART*
WHY?!!!??!?!??!!?!? WHY DO WE NEED MONEY!!!!!
Liberty Media: Braves’ revenue drops $16 million
Trying hard to return that money to our porn-peddling overlord’s pockets.
As I linked the other day though that $16 million revenue loss translated into a 9 million Dollar increase in operating income. They drop so much salary that they more than offset the lost money.
The revenue drops, and the profit goes up.
So Liberty is happy.
This is why corporate ownership of teams doesn’t work — at least for the people who give half a damn about it.
SELL THE TEAM, LIBERTY.
So who are we getting in return for Teheran?
He must be going somewhere if we are acquiring more pitchers?
Right?
Maybe a 3b and an OF?
Freeman and Teheran are all that’s left?
Then the Johns’ reign of terror will be over, they’ll have no one left to dump.
Hell, who knows? Bubba (head trainer Jeff Porter) might be next.
Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN 1m1 minute ago
Erick Aybar under contract for one more year. It’ll be interesting to see if ATL works to flip him to a team that needs a SS (Mets,SD?)
Two more pitching lottery tickets? Wow.
A young catcher to Atlanta as well?
I think some of you upthread owe me an apology.
Matt Harvey, indeed.
@122
Where do you see that?
I’m usually an optimist, but I really don’t understand what we’re doing anymore.
Pitching?
@124
It’s that guy we got in the David Hale trade I think.
Best info I can find on Newcomb: http://www.halosheaven.com/2015/7/16/8983083/mlb-midseason-prospect-rankings-sean-newcomb-angels-keith-law
“Newcomb shows three above-average pitches now and has one of the lowest-effort deliveries in the minors, but he’s still working on command and control, having succeeded at the University of Hartford by dominating bad hitters with pure stuff. I like his chances to develop into a No. 2 starter in time, given his size and stuff, although I think he’s behind other pitching prospects his age in terms of refinement.”
I’m pretty sure we have a few of these already.
There must be a pony in here somewhere!!
We have 14 of the same pitcher. How many of them can play 3rd?
Good lord. I was already hesitant about attempting to drive a little farther down Cobb Parkway in 2017, but the front office can eat poop. This is one of the worst trades in Braves history. They might as well get rid of Freddie and Julio.
My eyes are welled with tears, but that may just be from all the puking.
I’m softening to the trade.
@124, Tim Brown tweeted the Braves getting a catcher, then adjusted pretty quickly,
Oh well.
This trade kinda stinks. We got a couple more lottery tickets.
I dont think I will bother with the MLB.TV package next year.
Good Lord almighty. New thread.
Ugh. This is not a good day.
Angels fans are pretty pissed to see Newcomb included in the deal. 2014 drafter with 11.1 k/9 across 3 levels. Baseball America slots him in as our new number 1 prospect.