This was one of the oddest games I have ever seen. It was like watching three games all in one.
At one point the Braves didn’t have a base runner for seven innings. Then with the score tied at one, the Braves blow it open with six runs in the 14th. I know, this is a strange team.
At one point we would go 12-1 and lose a few in a row. Now we have taken getting streaky to a new level. We go six-seven innings with no base runners, then score six.
I guess it helps when you play a AAA team. They actually remind me of the Cleveland Indians from Major League, except with less talent and heart.
It is a little too early to say “must win game,” but this was as close as you can get to one in July. These are the type of games you look back on if you lose and miss the playoffs by one game.
On top of it all, the Nats lost. The lead is back up to five.
Side Note: Let’s send Freddie Freeman to the All Star Game. Vote early, vote often.
I picked up the broadcast in the top of the 11th. I was fighting the DOOOOOOMED feeling up until J Upton doubled in the 14th.
I have got to give Carpenter credit for bearing down in the bottom of the 13th and getting out of that first and second nobody out pickle he had wiggled into.
Is there a limit to how many times you can vote? I was doing it this evening and it definitely let me vote more than 25 times. I eventually stopped only because I got hungry and needed to eat dinner.
Puig has seen 4 pitches in his first four at bats tonight. He is 2-4.
No limit. I used it to get marginally competent at touch-typing the numbers on my laptop without a 10-key.
@301, what @302 and @304 said. Simmons is a historically good shortstop; one could not ask for a better. But giving him the most plate appearances is utter insanity at this point (by the commonly used definition of the word, which is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result).
Of course, there’s enough of that to go around at this point…
But yay laundry and batting around in the 14th!
Let’s play, guess that line:
.267/.284/.356 (.640) 1273 innings and 18 DRS
.246/.281/.349 (.630) 732 innings and 24 DRS
The first line is Lil Tony Pena in 2007. The second line is your leadoff hitter. Granted, Andrelton’s prorated DRS will swamp that 18. But 18 is a pretty damn good shortstop.
Lil Tony Pena accumulated just 288 plate appearances following that performance, and then was converted to a pitcher.
Now. If you want to tell me “Andrelton Simmons is not the kind of guy you give up on,” I’ll say “Obviously you’re right.”
But if you’re going to tell me “Andrelton Simmons is not the kind of guy who should be losing at-bats to an actual major leaguer,” then I’m going to have to beg to differ with you.
If Ramiro Pena wasn’t hurt, he should be the heavy-side of a platoon with Andrelton. (And I don’t remember who invented the idea the last time I said that, that Pena was a subpar shortstop, but he’s a career 12 RDS/season (or per 1200 innings.) That would do fine if he kept getting on base at a .330 clip. Or, anything better than .2-friggin-80.
EDIT: For comparison’s sake, Paul Janish, who I think we can all agree can play him some shortstop, is a career 11 RDS/season. Pena is the same quality defender that Janish is.
Fredi’s gonna stick his fastest guy in the leadoff spot and that’s just all there is to it. There’s been times when he’s stepped outside the conventional wisdom, like when he deployed the Larussian tactic of hitting his pitchers in the 8 hole. But I guess this isn’t one of those times he’s comfortable doing that.
holy guacamole…
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/08/anna-benson-arrested-after-raiding-kris-bensons-house-with-a-gun-bulletproof-vest/
AS is not the only starter with low OBP.
Just got back from the Brewers game.
I witnessed Fat Juan draw a walk.
Next time up he singled up the middle and then scored from first on a triple.
Then he singled to the opposite field.
Last at bat, JJ Hoover struck him out.
Then he was replaced by Yuniesky Betancourt.
I was waiting for him to come out on the field on a unicorn.
Hooray baseball.
@9 – Before tonight, our starters had (in decending order) OBP’s of: .386 (BMac), .382 (F5), .375(CJ), .347(Jupton), .326(Heyward), .322 (Uggla), .289 (AS), .269 (Dumpton).
When Schafer comes back, he needs to take AB’s away from Dumpton. Even if you can’t reconcile $15m per with “platoon player,” he can’t be out there EVERY-SINGLE-DAY when Schafer may or may not be having a break-through season.
@7: Andrelton isn’t even fast—or if he is, you can’t tell through all the stupid decisions he makes on the basepaths. If baserunning ability is the only priority, it should be Jason or B.J. leading off.
That double play started by Freeman in the 11th was huge. It was an extremely quick turn by all involved.
That Andrelton’s a bad baserunner so far in his career further implicates the lack of wisdom that has him in the leadoff spot. But he’s plenty fast.
Went to the Yanks/KC game tonight. Saw a Pinstripe lineup that included Travis Ishikawa, Luis Cruz, Austin Romine & Alberto Gonzalez (the infielder, not the former Attorney General).
You know your roster is weak when you need a pinch-hit HR to tie the game & all you can do is call for Eduardo Nunez to stand in for Romine. (BTW, that KC closer Greg Holland has some outrageous stuff.)
But again, thank goodness for the MLB app & getting to watch that 14th inning. And yeah, that Freddie DP was clutch.
ESPN really wants you to vote for Puig:
http://tomahawktake.com/2013/07/08/the-espn-conspiracy-votefreddie/
@14: Maybe he’s got decent raw speed. I wouldn’t take his outstanding performance at shortstop to be strong evidence of that, because quickness and agility are more important. But I don’t see any way he’s faster than Jason or B.J. in a flat out sprint (say, from first to home).
I get that you’re not actually defending Fredi’s decision to bat him leadoff, so I’ll leave it there.
For what it might be worth, I remember when he and Pastornicky were both in the minor leagues, the consensus was that Pastornicky was the faster runner. And to my eyes that’s been the case.
I’d say he “has good speed.” I would not say “he is fast.”
BJ is 1-28 against the Marlins
Simmons should not lead off. Everyone knows this. He should, however, play every single inning of every single game because he’s the best shortstop since Ozzie Smith. We talk about how great the pitching has been, and don’t get me wrong, it’s been great. But A LOT of their success has to do with the black hole where all ground balls get sucked up on the left side of the infield. Pairing him up with Chris Johnson masks a lot of the awfulness of CJ’s glove.
I’ll take Simmons and his awful OBP over anyone this side of Tulo (who admittedly can’t stay healthy).
@20
I’m seat painter and I endorse this message.
The girls love home runs, but defense wins games. Apology to Bethany who knows baseball.
She can destroy a guy with a single glare or remark.
Who should bat leadoff?
I think Heyward is the best option right now.
I like:
Heyward
Johnson
Freeman
JUpton
McCann
Uggla
BJ
Simmons
Heyward
Chris
Freeman
Justin
McCann
Uggla
BJ
Simmons
OMG TRACE MIND MELD
Why do the Barves look at so many called third-strikes?
Guys are getting thrown out left and right because umps are making questionable calls and we’re STILL expecting them to make the proper borderline call?
Swing the friggin’ bat!! ESPECIALLY with two strikes.
Wouldn’t Uggla see more strikes in the leadoff spot?
I think Simmons might be better than Ozzie.
@29 Let’s not get too carried away….yet.
Can we go with an old, old school nickname for Andrelton? Something like ‘Death To Rolling Things.’?
Edit: I still love the Edit Button.
In the previous thread jjschiller stated “I’d take an average defensive shortstop with a league average OBP.”
The league-average OBP for qualified shortstops is .306. You’re basically giving up the best defensive shortstop since Ozzie in exchange for eight fewer outs to this point in the season.
It is inexcusable that he’s still batting leadoff (not his fault), and some of his decision-making is as dumb as I’ve seen this side of Yunel, but Andrelton Simmons is as close to irreplaceable as we’ve got on this team.
Aesthetically speaking, it would be tragic to play Andrelton less in exchange for even significantly more bat. He’s pretty much the only reason I don’t fast-forward through innings wherein Maholm or Hudson is pitching. There’s a chance for something spectacular on every pitch. It’s just a lot of fun to anticipate and even more fun to actually see.
How old was Prado when he was doing Prados all the time. AS will improve. He was promoted quickly for his glove, not his bat.
@33
I agree.
I’m also with Stu, Simmons can pick it.
I would go:
Chris
Heyward
Justin
Freeman
McCann
Uggla
BJ
Simmons
I also think that when Schafer is back, he should platoon with BJ. Then I would go:
Schafer
Heyward
Justin
Freeman
McCann
Uggla
Chris
Simmons
@29 In a fielding contest between Andrelton and Ozzie, I think the odds would have to be heavily in Simmons’ favor, especially once you consider that Ozzie is 58 years old.
@27: That’s how you draw walks: work deep counts, take close pitches. The good (highest BB rate in the NL) comes with the bad (highest K rate). Overall, I think their approach is good, even if it’s hard sometimes to watch strike 3 sail in there. What I do know is that this is the approach that this group of guys has, and if Greg Walker tried to force a “more aggressive” approach on our selective sluggers it would just end in tears.
@36 Taking a borderline pitch on a 3-2 count means more walks and Ks. The batting percentage on borderline pitches is low. You can’t foul them all off. Each walk may mean the next batter gets a better pitch to hit.
Yeah, I have no problem with called strike 3s. The much bigger problem is that guys like Uggla and the Uptons are swinging through too many strikes. The plate approach is sound. The execution – because of either age/decline or injury/mechanical flaws – is not.
Colin Cowherd’s opening rant this morning called out ESPN for campaigning for Puig on their website, and he agreed with the Braves for taking offense. I’m thinking this was lifted from Joe Simpson’s rant on Sunday, considering he framed his grievances the exact same way.
Joe Simpson is an old man
It’s a peculiar thing, fandom. It leads me in 2 directions, on the one hand I love my team and on the other, I hate all others. The first part of me would like freeman to be recognized by baseball as a 2013 all-star and in so doing, have all other baseball fans symbolically bow to me and my superior team.
On the other hand, not only do I not care about the respect of other teams/fans, I kind of loathe it in a way. This side of me would like to see Freddie get snubbed, have the entire franchise rail at the clear disrespect and start playing ball at that early April clip again. (except for Uggla and BJ who have still to play at a high level this year)
Janish and Pastornicky are making positive contributions. Too early to tell about Joey T.
I assume Janish will stay up when El Oso and Success come back. All will be here in September. Will any other position players be called up then?
Can’t strain my brain about All-Star Games, in any sport. Love Freddie & all, but I’m fine with my team’s guys not playing. Get some rest & kick ass in the 2nd half.
I would:
Uggla
Hey
Justin
Freeman
Mac
BJ
Simba
Johnson
Pitcher
@43, Yes. If anything, I’m contemplating voting for Desmond.
We all could use a 3 day rest during the all star break. Kraken will pitch about 10 pm
My lineup contribution:
Against lefties:
Heyward
CJ
Justin
Freeman
McCann/Oso Blanco
Uggla
BJ
Death To Rolling Things (I like it enough to risk ridicule by using it. DTRT for short-plus that kinda looks like DIRT.)
Against Righthanders
Success/CJ
Heyward
Justin
Freeman
McCann
Uggla
CJ/BJ
DTRT
(For those games where you want to give Schafer a start).
Let’s get Julio through about eight innings tonight with a 5 run lead and let Ayala finish it off.
@45
Sports are supposed to be fun, you know. Sabotaging your own guy so that he can get some rest doesn’t sound like very much fun to me. And he was gonna go on vacation somewhere, and he’s not gonna start. His vacation might as well be to New York. Having to play two innings or something isn’t going to be that big of a deal, and especially isn’t going to be the difference between a good and bad second half.
First place prize in one day in NYC, second place 3 days.
I see CJ doing well in the eight-spot. I don’t see others doing well there. Switching Simmons and Uggla might solve the most glaring issue. BJ isn’t going anywhere, and he will play better.
I haven’t voted for an ASG selection in years, but to actively vote against your guy is absurd. Freddie Freeman wants to go to the ASG and meet stars and enjoy the craziness of the weekend. He wants the respect of his peers and he wants the “All Star” tag on his next contract negotiation. If you like the player, vote for him for the ASG. He deserves it.
Death to Infield Rolling Things, Netherlands-Antilles Program: DIRTNAP
Giants sign Frenchy.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/san-francisco-giants-reach-agreement-jeff-francoeur-070913
Again, I’m likely not voting. And @51 sounds about right to me. But for all we know, the rest plus the added motivation of being snubbed might spur Freddie to play better in the second half and, hopefully, the playoffs.
Mostly, I am a little terrified of the injury risk, but it’s not like he’s hitting in the derby.
@51
Yes, but super-conniving, no-fun, treats-being-a-fan-like-he’s-running-a-business sports fan (Note: Not directed specifically at you, Adam R, but at people who think this way in general) doesn’t want Freeman to have an “All-Star” stamp on his resume for his next contract. He wants all of his team’s guys to be repeatedly crapped upon so that they’ll be as cheap as possible to re-sign.
We all know Freeman and Puig will both make it. I wouldn’t be suprised to see McCaan go either.
@55 – right, but people who approach their fandom that way, as if the game were an actuarial table, are doing it wrong,
a word for Jason’s play in right field last night…
quite exceptional…
Joe was spot on drawing attention to it…
if any front office in baseball were given free reign to pick any Brave they could sign on a long term contract do you think for a moment there’s any doubt who that would be?
He’s a priceless asset…he’s also a quiet, unassuming kid from a small island who deserves our support not this nightly bitching…0 for 7, dear dear, you couldn’t resist could you?
and don’t tell me it’s just Fredi you’re mad at, hitting him lead off…he’s tarred with the same brush and, sadly, he knows it…you think these blog pile-ons go unnoticed in the clubhouse?
we are SO lucky to have him, leave him be…
59: I think it would be Heyward, but for the money issue.
Heyward, Freeman, JUpton, Minor and probably Teheran. Simmons is a good player and brings value to the team, but he has no business in the leadoff spot and it’s absurd to act like calling that fact out is somehow going to hurt his poor wittle feefees. He’s a baseball player, not your little sister.
Sam, from the players you list, in building my team I take Andrelton, then Teheran, Heyward, Freeman and Minor.
Not that it matters, since I’m not building a team, but stellar defense at short from a kid who can only improve as a hitter is more important in my opinion than an annointed right fielder who, though dazzling with spurts of occasional brilliance, isn’t threatening to re-write the record books.
That’s like saying you’d take Rey Sanchez over Brian McCann. Simmons is a hell of a defender and valuable to a team. He’s great to have under cheap control for the next few years, and if he ever figures out how to hit he’ll be a superstar.
He has not shown much in the way of suggesting he will figure out how to hit. Seriously, the guy had one little spike of hitting as a call up last year (before getting hurt.) Otherwise, he’s an all glove SS. He’s really good. He might get better. But let’s not oversell the thing, okay?
Heyward is a stellar defender in RF who has the potential to actually destroy baseballs. He too may never put it together completely, but he’s a better building block than Andrelton Simmons.
There’s a lot of wishcasting going on with Simmons’ offensive “upside” around here.
And Freddie Freeman just gets no respect at all.
I’m just not convinced that Simmons is going to hit. Why offer a long term contract? Lets find out if he is going to improve his offense during the cost controlled years.
I’m not going to go all Bill Shanks on everyone but Jason Heyward may just turn out to be only a good baseball player.
edit: If you are going to prioritize your long term contracts: Minor Medlen Freeman Heyward Teheran
I have no room for an all-defense player if I’m building a team. I *think* that Simmons will eventually hit. He’s a big guy and plenty strong. Most of his troubles seem like poor approach and immaturity rather than mechanical or physical limitations.
If he hits like this for his whole career then he’s just not all that valuable. I’m gonna bet that he’ll hit a lot better, and I’m sure the Braves are making the same bet.
You know Ozzie Smith wasn’t much of a hitter when he came up either. and he turned out to be a useful offensive player as he matured. I don’t see any reason Simba can’t learn to do useful things at the plate either.
You know no one would have built a franchise from the ground up around Ozzie Smith?
Maybe not, but there are 30 general managers who would have locked him up in a heartbeat at the right price.
Edit: And to add; that price would have been higher than you’d have expected for a .240 hitter with no power to speak of.
Simmons is very useful on a good team like this with a pitching staff that gets a lot of outs on balls in play. Our team is not built around him, but he’s a very useful piece to have (and would be even more useful if he weren’t batting leadoff, but I digress…). On a team like Miami or Houston that’s being built from the ground up, this season he’s having right now would be almost completely useless. He would still save a bunch of runs, but what would it matter given the avalanche of additional runs that would be scoring anyway? And he would be providing nothing at the plate. He has to improve his offense to become more than a useful player to have for the right type of team, which is what he is now. Everyone keeps bringing up Ozzie Smith, and the fact that no one can find a different name to bring up is instructive, as he’s pretty much the only player in the relatively modern game to ride that track to stardom. It’s not likely that it’ll work out for Simmons, because it hasn’t worked out for anybody else. He needs to hit or in a few years, he’ll be a defensive replacement, and that’s pretty much it.
Rey Sanchez was a value-add player to pretty much every team he was on in the 1990s. He was what Rey Ordonez was advertised to be. But you don’t build a franchise around that guy. You get that guy to complete the picture when you get a franchise built.
Ozzie Smith shows that defense can be overrated. How in the hell could any team give him 649 plate appearances in 1979?
I think I would take Freeman as the one guy to build around. Heyward has more potential, but so far Freeman has put it together.
Ozzie Smith was very fortunate to play at a time when runs were at such a premium that a defensive specialist/stolen base guy had impact. A guy posting a 3.5 oWAR (7.3 total!!!) season on 97 OPS+ and 29SB just stretches credulity.
@73, not that I necessarily disagree, but as has been noted often about CJ, Freddie enjoying a 40 point spike above career BaBip over 75 games may not be conclusive.
I wasn’t around at the time when Ozzie was a Padre, but wasn’t he considered to be a rising star at the time? Did his dazzling displays of defense sell tickets?
@73: I disagree. Freddie gives back runs with his glove and on the basepaths. Unless he somehow blossoms into a 40-homer guy (spoiler alert: he never will), he just isn’t as good as Jason.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/atlanta-braves-fans-stuffing-ballot-box-endangers-los-175300360.html
Grrrrrrr….
@78, Lame reasoning, and it also seems obvious these pieces don’t go through any editing process at all:
“The Braves, ever since they’re dominance in that started in the early 1990s, gradually declined to what would resemble a midseason game against a last-place team.”
What the hell is this guy trying to get across?
“Dustin Nosler has followed the Dodgers from Northern California all his life. He’s the founder of Feelin’ Kinda Blue, a Dodger blog. He also co-hosts “Dugout Blues,” a weekly Dodger podcast. Find him on Twitter @FeelinKindaBlue.”
Dustin Nosler is a Dodger homer and an idiot whose talking points were dated in 2005. You kids should go Twitter shame him.
@78
LOL…what a loser! Those Yahoo contributer network pieces are pure gold. Perhaps what’s even more amusing is that that piece actually made more sense than Bill Shanks’ column the other day.
I hope people keep voting. This could shape up to be pretty hilarious on Thursday if Freeman wins and the national media is forced to drink their own tears.
I’m really just mad that doofus got paid to write that.
He most likely didn’t get paid. He got his “work” out on Yahoo! and a free plug for his blog.
@82, He might not have. Which would make the reality of the situation even worse.
This could shape up to be pretty hilarious on Thursday if Freeman wins and the national media is forced to drink their own tears.
OK, you know what? I’m persuaded.
Well my next door neighbor does some Braves pieces for Yahoo and he’s a nice kid.
//and they do get paid (practically nothing) per page view.
Braves fans stuff the ballot box?
2008 “All-Star Starter” Geovany Soto would probably disagree with that statement. As would Yadier Molina’s dead-sexy 671 OPS as an ASG Starter in ’10.
Also: A Los Angeles Anything fan dissing another fanbase for not showing up in the clutch is, well, come on son.
Just stuffed about 50 more ballots in the box after reading that article.
Cristhian Martinez just tweeted that his surgery went well. I wasn’t even aware that he was having surgery. Did the Braves announce that?
I’m honestly not sure where he’s getting that we stuff ballot boxes, either. I’m guessing he’s thinking that Chipper probably didn’t deserve all the All-Star starts he got and that the reason he got them was that we stuffed the ballot box. Of course, the more accurate reason is that there wasn’t anyone else deserving and he was the most famous NL 3B at the time, but hey…can’t let facts get in the way.
Kids, this is one of the many reasons Braves fans over 30 hate the Dodgers.
I just would like to remind this guy 1988 was a long time ago. But I would like to point out that we stomped them in ’91!
I think we have to make sure that no Dodger gets in over a Brave
So… Since when did Braves fans get this reputation for ballet stuffing? For being so passionate about their team that they always get their guy in? It’s a first-place team with a single All-Star for chrissake.
The guy does bring up a good point about Gattis. Except he fails to recognize that good point and instead opts to whine about double standards.
Personally I’d love to see Puig get in. But if a frickin fan vote goes for Freddie, don’t you think that says something about what the people want to see? After all, Atlanta’s a pretty small media market compared to LA.
Braves fanbase: voting :: Braves fanbase : attending games
Gattis has been on the team all year.
I was at the last playoff game that started at 5:00. It was a packed house and I think we showed a little passion.
Dodger fans show up late. Leave early. Never make the playoffs. The few times they have, they got bounced quickly.
I’m going to go out on a limb and not look it up, but I don’t think they have won a post season series since 1988.
They are in the second biggest city in America and haven’t been relevant in over 20 years. The fan base cares more about the Lakers. Hell, they don’t even have a football team.
I’m not sure a Dodger fan can call anyone out.
Puig should be on the Southern League All Star Team
Sure is a lot of carrying on about a game nobody cares about.
If Puig is so great, won’t he be on a dozen All-Star teams in the future?
He’s been in the majors for about a month. It’s ridiculous to insist he be in.
In that it will piss of Dodger fans, I have reconsidered my “I don’t vote for All Stars” position and will spend the evening stuffing ballots from various devices.
The Torre-managed Dodgers won the NLDS in 2008 & 2009, but lost NLCS to Phils both years.
Dodgers have been one of the biggest draws in the history of baseball. (They were the 1st club to draw 3 million fans.) Of course, it’s also a function of LA being the 2nd largest city in America, but you can’t say Dodger fans don’t show up. They do.
It’s just a tough stadium to get into and out of.
I love the All Star game. I seem to be in the minority here, but I do. I’m not even 100% sure why. I guess I love seeing all the stars that I never get to watch, and I like to see Braves players playing with them. I thought it was a lot of fun a few years ago seeing McCann catching guys like Wainwright and Halladay, and then roping that game winning double down the line. Sure they make some mistakes with the selections, but for the most part I think they get it right. I will enjoy watching the game this year, and will enjoy it even more if Freeman makes it.
Just my 2 cents.
@98 – You don’t have to vary your device. On the “Final Man” vote, there is no vote limit.
I’ve punched in 7 different 15 minute shifts since voting began. I reckon I’m probably voting about 3 times per minute.
That’s gotta be like, what, 15,000 votes or something? Yay me.
And who says we stuff ballots? 😉
Vote for hugs, y’all
https://twitter.com/mlbbowman/status/354689895714930688/photo/1
#100
There was a time—a time before free-agency and certainly a time before interleague play—when MLB’s All-Star game was actually interesting.
For allowing himself to be put on Twitter with that T-shirt in support of Freddie, I hereby pledge to not complain about Simba in the lead-off slot for the next 24 hours.
Oh, and I’ll vote for Freddie too!
@105 – And I pledge to make my criticism exponentially less personal!
EDIT: We’re talking for the next 24 hours.
Jerry Crasnick has put together a nice article on the Uptons over at ESPN. It appears that he spent a good amount of time shadowing Justin, BJ and Greg Walker while writing the piece, which tracks not only the potential causes of the Uptons’ respective struggles but also their lengths they (and the Braves generally) have gone to in order to fix things. Frankly, reading this article made me feel somewhat better about things (especially w/r/t B.J.), mostly because B.J. comes across a lot better in this article than he has in games in his Braves career to date.
@104, Pet Rose put the sport irrevocably on the road away from that in 1970.
#89 – No they did not. Apparently DOB retweeted something that the LISP put out there after his surgery. Even better, Fredi didn’t know he was having surgery. He only knew it was an option. That’s pretty sad.
Time for Wren to tell him to shut the **** up then.
@mlbbowman: Fredi G. said he knew there was a chance C. Martinez would undergo shoulder surgery today. But he hasn’t yet been informed it happened
@ajcbraves: Apparently, waiting for #Braves to confirm RT @Alex_Morrison: @ajcbraves @mlbbowman did CMart have surgery today? https://t.co/EmJpKJCOCf
And of course Keith Law — who writes about the Braves as though he’s been turned down repeatedly for jobs with them — wants Puig in the ASG. As if we needed another reason to stuff the ballot box.
Report: Commissioner Bud Selig’s office is expected to suspend Ryan Braun and Alex Rodriguez, along with as many as 20 players sometime after next week’s All-Star break, several sources told “Outside the Lines.”
http://tinyurl.com/lnhnus2
MLB is going to lose their ass on this.
Why is it in the purview of a pundit to be using words like “should” in regards to a popularity contest? It’s okay to advocate for certain players to be added to the roster based on a subjective understanding of their merits, but a vote is a vote. The wrong player is never elected to start the ASG (or to win the final 5), because the rule is the fans decide who the right player is. There is no “should”.
@113: “along with as many as 20 players”
Please be Gio, please be Gio…
Well done, Bupton.
Way to go BJ!
May Teheran hurt the FISH for walking CJ
That was not well played, Justin.
That was not well played, Chris.
A 3 legged deer with play third more gracefully than Chris.
Chris should really just attack bouncers like that, when he backs up he doesn’t seem to make plays and if it gets by him when going for the short hop, Andrelton will probably grab it behind him anyway.
lololololol
Julio!
Morrison on the bases looks like Chris Johnson playing defense.
Dammit.
Ahh, dammit.
Are you f-ing kidding me?
Ditto
Three unearned runs. Nice defense at third, Dorn.
Andrelton 0-for-9 this series. Nice job giving him the most plate appearances, Fredi.
Well, the offense needs to score more than 1 run anyway
YES!
Man, BJ got robbed.
Nice inning.
Can’t hit it much harder than that, Bupton, just bad luck/great defense.
It’s going to be a looong game.
Hey Julio. Stop it.
Julio doing his best Tim Hudson imitation
A gift!
Nice piece of hitting there, Andrelton.
Just kidding. It was actually horrible.
Better score a run on the basis of that gift now.
Dammit…
…
Snitker, you moron.
I think that was still an OK decision to tag. Good throw.
Was the throw really perfect, Chip? Or was that ball kinda shallow and Johnson kinda slow?
Anybody else getting the feeling #8 is feeling a little miffed about falling out of the ASG starting three outfield vote?
Outside, probably, but that was too close, Freddie.
You just can’t take that pitch with two strikes and a runner on second and no outs. I don’t care if it was off the plate. You have to swing the f’ing bat. I’m about to go all Joe Simpson on this team with their situational non-hitting.
Yes! and nooooo
Good hitting, not quite as good base running, Brian.
I’ll take the run – sweet piece of hitting to beat the shift there by BMac. Way to pick’em up.
Well, the Phillies just went up 4-1.
Everyone knows you give the most plate appearances to your fastest runner, not the guy who gets on base the most. Those guys just clog up the bases.
Man this is a big park.
Bupton seems to get better results with line drives and hard grounders than all those infield pops.
Yes!!!
Teheran helps his own cause, which could use the help.
ABE baseball y’all!
Perfectly placed, Julio.
Yeah, you guys saying good defense doesn’t matter much, you’re totally right. Obviously the Marlins are doing fine without it.
I hope I am wrong, but it feels like it will take more than 5.
Yeah I got that feeling too. Julio is going to get stretched an inning or two extra b/c of last night’s game. Marlins could do us a few favors and make some outs on few pitches this inning.
Teheran has been efficient last few innings
GONE
Hello there, early season Jupton.
Is this April Fools Day?
JUSTIN! It’s April again!
A glorious sight. JUpton doesn’t hit many cheap ones.
76 pitches for Teheran through 6 despite 4 runs, 7 hits and an error. He may go 8.
Nice to see both Uptons squaring up some balls tonight.
He needs to go 8. Ayala is about the only guy who has a fresh arm.
Werth leaves them loaded. Still 4-1 Phillies.
Nats loaded the bases with one out, but Hamels got Zimmerman and Werth to leave them all stranded.
Wow. Five hits between them. Are the Uptons returning to usefulness?
CJ…
“I don’t mind (hitting eighth),” he said. “I would never ask to be moved up. I would never say that I wanted to be. That would be a slap in the face of the seven guys who are batting ahead of me. Plus, I’m in the lineup every day. That’s all I want.”
Got to have respect for him.
Julio is definitely better at swinging than bunting.
If moving CJ ahead of any of 7 guys is slapping their face, why is he ok with getting his own face slapped by Freddi?
It’ll be interesting if the Phillies’ play convinces Amaro not to blow up their team until the offseason. I’d very much like for them to delay the inevitable rebuilding process for as long as possible, plus not get any return on Utley et al.
Starting for the first place Barves and hitting better than he ever has.
Julio might need to work on bunting.
CJ would be happy to bat further up the lineup. He just isn’t going to say that to a reporter. He’s finally a full time starter on a good team. He’s probably happy.
Andrelton did his utmost to pop out that at-bat, but somehow didn’t.
Grr. Oh well.
Wouldn’t have minded some add-on there. Julio against the heart of the order in the 8th. If he can get through this he’s gonna probably pitch a complete game.
@183 Plus not having to play for Gibson.
Then what’s Freddi’s excuse for not moving him up in the order?
Phillies hang on to win 4-2.
Gnats lost.
180- We can count on Ruin Tomorrow, Junior, to hold his team together if he thinks they’ve got a ghost of a chance.
@187: Not sure. Probably thinks he’s too slow to bat leadoff. Probably doesn’t see a lot of value in moving him ahead of Uggla or BUpton at this point.
Me personally, I’d move Uggla to leadoff, Johnson up to Uggla’s spot, and bat Simmons 8th or 9th.
I gotta say, although I’ve been fine with Fredi Gonzalez this season, this trait – letting the pitcher hit for himself, but then lifting him the next inning at the first hint of trouble – irritates me. If the leash will be this short, I’d rather just see Walden start the inning.
For some reason C Johnson hits better batting 8th.
Fredi wanted to get through 8, but he didn’t want to let a tiring starter give up the lead once Stanton got on. That’s a fine, reasonable tactical decision.
I understand the logic, but thanks for explaining it anyway.
That’s a reasonable tactical decision by Fredi. Who do you figure thought of it?
I think they were worried ever since Teheran gave up the 3 run homer. They were hoping he could go 6.
I am flabbergasted at the idea of that being a fine tactical decision.
HE. DOES. IT. EVERY. GAME.
He seems incapable of learning! The previous half inning, he let a pitcher bunt for himself, and he failed. ALL OF OUR PITCHERS FAIL AT BUNTING. THEY ARE TERRIBLE. THEY ARE NEVER SUCCESSFUL.
Then, we load the god damn bases and score nothing.
THEN he pulls him after he walks Stanton. HE HAS A FUCKING LINEUP CARD. HE KNOWS WHO IS UP.
Why oh why oh why oh why would you NOT USE A FUCKING PINCH HITTER when you fucking KNOW THE HEART OF THE ORDER IS DUE UP, and you fucking KNOW you have a measly TWO RUN LEAD?!
AND, and, and… And. Fine. That happens. Drats. My pitcher didn’t get the bunt down. Drats, my hitters did their job, and loaded the bases, and drats. Then I ran out of outs. And, DRATS, my pitcher went out and walked the leadoff hitter, who happens to be the only actual hitter on the other team… Hmm… Well, win some, lose some. Maybe I’ll use that pinch hitter next time.
PSYCHE! More pitchers hitting for themselves in the 8th inning of close games! Because that’s just what I fucking do, bitches.
^^^^mad^^^^^
Edit: I agree though and it’s very frustrating when it happe a over and over again. Anyways, 6 games up is a lot better than 4
“And Kimbrel shuts the door as he usually does,” says the Fishy announcer. And now the lead’s back up to six.
Earlier in this thread people noted that the Braves pen was stretched due to last night’s 14-inning ordeal. Quit bitching like a baby. Braves win. 6 game lead in the division.
That is just straight fucking stupid.
We’re not talking about pinch hitting in the top of the 6th here.
You got 7 full innings out of him. Instead, you gave away a scoring opportunity to get ONE extra out. You still used the same number of relievers you would have used, just for one fewer out.
And it’s not like, surprise, he walked the 8th place hitter in front of a pinch hitter, didn’t see that coming.. The first man up in the next half inning was Giancarlo Stanton.
This fetishizing of thirds of innings is straight up stupid.
No more stupid than this fetishizing of single PH at bats.
It was a perfectly reasonable call. Quit whining like a six year old.
No, substantially more stupid than that fetishizing pinch hit at-bats.
Pinch hit at-bats will impact far more games than stretching your starter for one more out.
With a -11 run differential, I don’t expect the Natspos to make a run at us unless they significantly improve the offense and pitching.
@206
I was pretty stoked at Dan Haren coming off the DL.
@207, And then he went and pitched decently — meaning they’ll run him out there again — and they still lost the game. Pretty sweet.
@206: I agree. These pundits who say that the Nats still have an 18 of 20 run in them are looking at the team they thought they saw before the season, not the team that has now played 90 games of mediocre baseball.
Their offense had looked good lately – at least until the last two nights. Harper, Zimmerman, and Werth have all been hitting, and they’re getting good production out of their middle infield. I’d be surprised if they don’t ultimately post a positive run differential and make a run. They also, I’d guess, trade for another starter, though I don’t know who that could be.
Every game counts. Hopefully the Braves can pick up another one tomorrow.
Anyone see Puig kind of trying to run over Montero at the plate? Montero tagged him out and then have him the Mutombo finger wave. Btw, those commercials are awful.
Quit whining like a six year old.
It’s this type of unpleasantness that’s driving some reasonable people away from this site.
@209 and 210 I agree, but I don’t think the Nats are particularly strong at anything that they will go onto that 18 of 20. We are 50 runs better than them in hitting, and we are about 50 runs better than them in pitching. They need some significant upgrades in order to make a run at the playoff. Otherwise, the wildcard game will be between the Reds and the Pirates.
@212
Agreed. It’s been rather unpleasant lately.
Well, the bully has been given the keys, so what else should we expect to happen?
@212 I hate to say it but I agree.
Sayonara. It’s been fun.
Go Braves!
Although I myself curse like a sailor IRL (and getting my 8-year-old not to imitate me is starting to become an issue), I will say that use of profanity or harsh invective can easily swamp the raft of civility that usually makes this blog a joy. Counting myself as equally culpable, perhaps we might all take a deep breath and a step back and remember we’re here because we have something we dearly love in common.
Especially on nights when we win and the Nats lose. 😉
“Well, the bully has been given the keys, so what else should we expect to happen?”
It was nicer when one person (Mac) was writing all the new posts. Letting the plebs recap games just ain’t doing it.
Wow. Ouch.
While I get where Sam is coming from, in that @199 made its point in a rather tantrum-like way, we can all agree that name-calling doesn’t help matters.
Generally, I think it’s good to have someone around who will go against the grain — I generally agree with jjschiller regarding this particular tendency of Fredi’s, but this time I would’ve done what Fredi did — so Sam isn’t as big an issue for me as much as the way this place resembles Layne Staley’s diary whenever we’re losing.
Posters who post only whenever things aren’t going well, ask yourselves: do you really want to be that person?
As someone who has no time to do justice to any portions of games I actually get to watch, I wouldn’t dare criticize any post-Mac recaps. It is not an easy job. And a bunch of them have been great. Hotspur’s have definitely brought something great to the site, IMO.
While I miss Mac’s recaps, I think the readerships’ posts have been great. And Sam has been Samming it up for years. But it has been sort of flamewar-y lately. I dunno. I certainly hope sansho wasn’t saying goodbye for keeps, as he’s one of my favorite posters and recappers around here.
Actually, the “plebs” (plebes?) have been doing very, very well with the recaps. I appreciate them–a lot.
As for the unpleasantness…. Yeah, there’s been some of that, but coming from a passionate and intelligent fan, I can live with it. This place is like an apartment with about a dozen or so very diverse roommates. Stuff will happen.
@219
First, I’m 44 and I’m pretty sure Blazon is older than I am (not sure about the other newer folks), so I submit that your use of the word “pleb(e)s” is a bit inappropriate, not mention offensive.
Second, given the reason for Mac’s absence, I’d respectfully suggest that the fact that your enjoyment of the blog has been ruined is the absolute least important consequence of that reason.
Some perspective here is sorely needed.
@222, 223, 224
Thanks for your kind words.
I want to apologize to everyone for what I just posted, and I’ve requested its deletion. I had no right to say what I did, as a newcomer. I hope you’ll all forgive me. I took Dan’s words a little too personally and posted in haste.
And @223, I agree about sansho. I’d certainly miss him.
Sam’s been a cranky jackass since I was posting around him on freaking Usenet. It has *always* been welcome. Well, 98% of the time been welcome. Him vs. Mets fans in 99/00 are some fond Internet Memories.
Also, the plebes have my continued thanks for keeping this place rolling after Mac. It remains my favorite place for Barves commentary. Even when y’all argue. Or *especially* when y’all argue. Dunno.
(And I am not usually a Fredi defender…)
“and you fucking KNOW you have a measly TWO RUN LEAD?!”
What are “The Marlins,” Alex?
There will never be another Mac. We’re all doing the best we can with the site. Ad hominem attacks are not okay. Feel free to criticize the hell out of the players, but when it comes to Braves Journalers, just keep it above the belt. I have never banned anyone, and Mac absolutely hated to do it, so I don’t want to ban anyone. Please be nice, everybody.
Julio Teheran is a dark horse candidate for best pickoff move in the league, which is rather astonishing given that he’s a northpaw.
I’m really proud of what everyone here has done to keep the site going, recapping, commenting, writing offseason content, and going above and beyond the call of duty to keep the site lively. Occasionally too lively, maybe. But it’s been a great year so far. Thank you all.
Hey I want to say a few things.
First, I’m sorry for my language. In the first post, I was actually trying, unsuccessfully, to use it to comic effect. The event was already concluded, and to no ill-effect. I wasn’t actually mad, well, certainly not stark-raving-mad. Just frustrated.
The second post, yeah, my f-bomb was probably personal.
I’m sorry for my share in the unpleasantness.
But second, and way more importantly.. any insinuation that the posters who take the time to write the recaps have in some way been a detriment to this site is just… asinine. They are keeping this site moving and putting waaaaay more effort into this thing than I am, or any non-recapper for that matter. And further, to insinuate that any lowering in the level of discourse here can in anyway be attributed to the work of the recappers “not getting it done,” is false on its face.
Lastly, Sam’s been a good citizen for over a year now. He’s just going to argue a pro-organization line most of the time, and he sometimes has trouble with people disagreeing with him. But I don’t think hes abused his “keys.” He’s been mostly gracious I would say, and thats coming from someone who, three years or so back, had probably the most obnoxious and personal arguments with him of anyone here.
I guess what I want to say is, I’m culpable, and I’ll do better going forward. And I’d hate to have any part in driving anyone away from here, but especially someone who I know has truly enjoyed this place like I know sansho1 has.
I’ve been pleased with the recaps. Not every poster’s style is necessarily to my liking, but I appreciate what all of them has done. And AAR has done a great job keeping things in Mac’s spirit.
This is the best site on the internet, as far as I’m concerned.
AAR, I think you’ve done a great job keeping the site moving, and everyone who has contributed with recaps is doing a fine job. I’m sure Mac would be proud.
Everyone, we’re in first place by 6 games and have an excellent chance to win the division for the first time in a long time. Let’s cheer up, eh?
I think a “Please be nice, everybody.” reminder every once a while would be sufficient. Sometimes, we are just being too passionate. You can’t possibly find a better group of Braves fans to discuss baseball.
I’m finding it very easy to love this team.
Go Braves!
all passion spent..
“Julio Teheran is a dark horse candidate for best pickoff move in the league, which is rather astonishing given that he’s a northpaw.”
Schilling last night on Baseball Tonight argued that it’s a balk.
In other news, courtesy of JC Bradbury, compare the 2000 (roughly) PA slash limes of Heyward and Dale Murphy:
It took Dale Murphy 6 yrs (age 25) to reach Heyward’s 2000ish PAs at 23. Murph (.260/.324/.445/ 107 OPS+). J-Hey (.256./349/.437/ 112 OPS+).
my two cents.
recaps have been great. thanks to all for taking on such a task.
profanity is not needed here, but Sam is. he is a good reason why we such fun and passionate discussions.
thanks to all especially the braves for wi ning last night.
@238
It is pretty close to a balk.
I go to bed early and wake up to find warring amongst Bravesjournalers! And on a night we gained a game in the standings!
There are a lot of very good-hearted folks who are putting a hell of a lot of effort into writing recaps since Mac left us, and they are all doing an amazing job. It’s not a job I could take on, I know that. Please know that your efforts are appreciated by all of us and that you’re doing Mac proud.
Thanks to all who are keeping it running. This site has been my homepage for 14 years.
Why, with a six game lead, am I still not comfortable? Why do I have this feeling that a collapse is imminent? I know it’s irrational.
Bethany, take names and dole out appropriate punishment. I love this site. It makes me think even if I disagree with the posts. None of than bland stuff when Braves are good and everyone else is not.
@243 Past 3 years and all the talking heads say we are not designed to win playoffs.
OK,
If I have to travel the Southeast and knock some heads together I will NOT be a happy man. Plus, do you know how hard it is to knock one head in Chattanooga with another in Macon???? So stop it!
Anyway, I agree that everyone who has stepped up to carry on Mac’s passion has done yeoman’s work, and at a high level of quality that I could never approach. So, thank you.
Third, @243 – You probably feel that way because the Braves haven’t run away from an awfully poor division. we’ve been a .500 team over the last two months, and you feel .500 teams don’t make the play-offs. The thing I think you’ve forgotten is that everyone else has been a .500 or worse team all year. So buck up!
OK. Now. Any questions?
Recapped. New thread.
Why, with a six game lead, am I still not comfortable?
As @245 says, our recent collapses (oh hi, 2011!) do tend to make one nervous about a re-occurrence. Also, from a more rational standpoint, the 2013 Braves have been a ~.500 team after the hot streak to start the year, and have looked bad for extended periods of time. Personally I think we’ve got a good chance this season, with no truly dominant teams in either league, but this Braves team is especially streaky and at any given time they seem like a threat to lose (or win) the next 5-10 games in a row.
I’m mainly a lurker, but I’ve gotta say this:
If we could record an actual six-year-old making the rant at @199 and @203, it would be YouTube gold.