Miami Marlins vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – May 16, 2012 – ESPN.
So, it turns out that the Braves can score four runs. Unfortunately, they needed nine. Mike Minor‘s struggles continue, as his ERA is now over seven.
The Braves took an early lead, with Tyler Pastornicky (leading off with Michael Bourn getting a day off) singling, going to third on a Martin Prado double, and scoring on a Freddie Freeman groundout. And Minor got off to a good start, allowing only a walk through three.
But then he allowed three runs in the fourth, and three more (including a steal of home) in the fifth. The Braves cut it to 6-4 in the sixth, Prado scoring on a Dan Uggla single and runs coming in on groundouts by Brian McCann and Matt Diaz. But Cristhian Martined allowed a two-run homer in the seventh to give the Marlins breathing room.
JCed form the last thread
Bethany,
Minor is throwing strikes, but he is missing with his pitches (all are strikes, but not where he wants them)
The difference is, big league hitters don’t miss strikes.
From last thread,
No offense, Bethany, but you don’t have the slightest idea what you are talking about. You are simply engaging in amateur psychoanalysis on people you know nothing about except through their performances. How do you know Minor lacks some “intangible.” All you are saying is Minor is pitching poorly so he must be a head case. Did he have those intangibles when he was pitching well and then all of a sudden lose them?
@2 I’m simply offering an amateur opinion on performance like literally everyone else here. I’ve never claimed to be an expert.
What I am sick of is everyone getting their panties in a twist over everything I post here. If my thoughts are coming across as being that uneducated I will stop sharing them, and I’m sorry for the annoyance.
God forbid anyone here engage in conjecture!
http://www.talkingchop.com/2012/5/17/3026168/atlanta-braves-starting-pitcher-mike-minor-has-a-stretch-problem
Gondeee’s on to something.
Bethany, I like theories. Most of the time they’re untrue, but in no way should you disrespect yourself to the point of not posting. You have much to add to this site.
I don’t even know what the tussle was about but it is annoying when people discredit theories with such finality (as above) that he/she says the poster “has no idea” when they themselves have no idea. It’s a theory. Discuss it. Disagree with it. But don’t disrespect the person. Saying no offense when the next words are offensive are not offsetting.
Yeah, I’m just a Braves fan who pops in from time to time to share thoughts with other Braves fans. I consider myself informed, but not an expert, but if we need to show some sort of professional credentials to post our opinions or assertions or what have you, I’ll just stick to watching the games and not commenting.
The Braves may stretch out Medlen or Livan when Moylan gets close to returning.
@2 – Wow, Marc, that’s pretty condescending.
Reading Bethany’s posts from the last thread, I don’t see how they come across as anything more that her personal opinion/observation that some players may be better prepared mentally to execute at the highest levels of play. That’s hardly anything controversial or hair-brained.
She made pretty clear by prefacing statements with “I think…” that these were merely her opinions and at no time came across like she was reporting undisputed fact.
This comment board isn’t a scientific journal or a deposition. People have opinions, some disagree. But I’d hate for people to refrain from posting because it get to the point where every opinion they offer is shot down with replies of “You aren’t that player; You aren’t in the clubhouse/front office; You don’t have meticulously-researched data to back that up; You aren’t a licensed psychologist, so you have no right to post on this board”.
I suspect Minor’s problems is that when he was at Vandy, he ate babies, and now that he’s not at Vandy any more, he doesn’t have a convenient access point to evil satanic cults that provide him with clean, innocent babies to eat, and that makes him pitch poorly out of the stretch.
Somebody needs to get him some babies.
The Braves used to have a convenient supply, until Liberty Media bought them and began nickel-and-diming everything.
Frickin’ Liberty Media and their no-babies eating policy. The after game buffet has *so* gone downhill.
Oh, and re: the men-on-base splits from Gondee’s Talking Chop article, half of me is like “wow, that’s interesting, they should look into that” and the other half is like “and in today’s episode of small sample size theater…”
I’d love to know what the league-average OPS differential between bases-empty and men-on is.
2011, MLB:
With bases empty, batters hit .251/.312/.396
With men on, batters hit .261/.332/.403
With RISP, batters hit .254/.339/.393
With bases loaded, batters hit .270/.308/.420
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=p&lg=MLB&year=2011
In the NL this year it’s:
Bases empty .247 .306 .385 .691
Runners on .253 .329 .395 .724
Stu, do you happen to know anyone in the Minor camp? Does he have any idea of what’s wrong?
I think when Zombie Chipper was around, he ate all the baby brains that were on supply.
Olney was on the radio station here in Bham yesterday. Takeaways…
Braves will pick up Bmac’s option for ’13 but more than likely will be playing somewhere other than ATL in 2014. Stated the Yadier contract has cut ties on a lot of clubs trying to negotiate with their catchers.
Also stated the impact of the TV deal and how the Braves budget has stayed in the $90mil range for the last 10-12 years.
Mmmmmmm, hairless monkey brains…
I think that’s the basic plot of this episode, too.
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s07e02-krazy-kripples
16—Haven’t heard since last night’s game, but before that, it seems to just be run-of-the-mill frustration with himself. Think he’s also of Don Sutton’s opinion that every single mistake is getting hammered, making the results worse than the actual process, but I think he’s plenty frustrated with the process, too.
As you could probably guess, he doesn’t doubt himself at all. Just pissed that he’s not making better pitches.
That’s pretty much how I feel about him, too.
The slash numbers from bases empty to runners on is interesting. I think the better numbers with runners on is an indication that pitchers tend to get more of the plate when they have runners. Whether it’s because they have to pitch from the stretch and their ‘stuff’ is not as good or if they’re throwing more strikes to avoid putting even more runners on and suffering because, as has been said, MLB hitters (Jack Wilson excluded) usually don’t miss strikes, I have no idea.
PS – Bethany, if someone is dissing you, let me know and I’ll think bad thoughts about them. That’ll show them!
Bethany, if someone is dissing you, cyber stalk them, find their home address, and then go punch them in the throat. Always works.
I like my idea better – much more a Twilight Zone-ish feel to it.
Jack Wilson is excluded, by definition, from the phrase, “MLB hitters.” No need for redundancy.
McCann might be starting to decline anyway.
I’ll lose the hint of the eerie in return for some good old fashioned brute violence any day, and twice on Sundays.
I could also see McCann taking a home town Chipper style discount.
Could be nothing more than bad pitchers allow more runners on base, and are therefore pitching more often with runners on base….
Hey, show some respect. Jack Wilson is one of the best 6,840,507,003 hitters in the world.
Minor just needs to stop allowing baserunners apparently.
Bethany,
I apologize for going over the top. But I doubt that it’s a lack of “intangibles” that is Minor’s problem.
Lineup:
Bourn 8
Prado 7
Freeman 3
Uggla 4
McCann 2
Jones 5
Heyward 9
Pastornicky 6
Beachy 1
@34
You know, that’s not a bad team at all.
#33: Unequivocal apologies are rare on the internet. Well done, Mr. Schneider!
#35: So far, so good.
Here is a nice spin job. Fredi on JJ’s outing last night.
To paraphrase, they misplayed some balls behind him and one got misplayed and became an inside-the-park home run,” Gonzalez said. “He pitched better than what his numbers show. It was just one of those games.
“The slider was good. The separation between the change-up and the fastball was good.”
Could you imagine if his slider and fastball had been bad?
I read somewhere* that Benjamin Franklin is still alive because he eats baby brains.
Not sure if it works for pitching though.
*It was on the bathroom wall of the Roadhouse bar in Athens. Always cracked me up.
Ahhh, The Roadhouse. Best place in Athens to get a drink on Thanksgiving or Christmas. Rest of the year, not so much.
I really like Michael Bourn.
I also miss Marquis Grissom.
I loved Grissom. But Bourn is just as good. Grissom had more power, but Bourn has better plate discipline. Both are tremendous players.
Yeah, Nitram!
An early lead for our best pitcher—not bad.
Without any hyperbole whatsoever, Brandon Beachy is one of the greatest baseball stories I’ve ever heard of. An undrafted guy goes to become the National League ERA leader.
God, I love this guy.
Rookie mistake from the rookie shortstop.
Unfortunately, one that’ll be on blooper reels for quite some time.
Shades of Melky Cabrera!
Beachy = good.
Maybe Freddie should wear glasses more often!
Uggla looks lousy against Nolasco.
Freddie didn’t. He clubbed that ball.
Of course, he didn’t look lousy crossing home plate just now. 🙂
Michael Bourn is a freaking champ.
DOB just tweeted this:
Michael Bourn has easily been the MVP so far. Is there a case to be made for anyone else?
Things go better when you have a fast guy at the top of the lineup getting on base a lot.
Man, I love Chipper Jones.
Zombie Chipper wants braaaiiinnnnsssss!
This Chipper guy will be pretty good some day.
@52
You mean team MVP? Then yes, I’d call it a landslide. In the NL, he’s definitely in the discussion with Kemp, Wright, and Beltran. Votto and Furcal in the next tier IMO.
Nice job there by Heyward, singling into the opposite-field hole.
Man, it’s awesome that we have an offense.
#56: I was thinking Braves team MVP, but heck, maybe he could be playing well enough to be league MVP!
Go Chipper! Love that guy!
What can’t Beachy do?
Is there anything better than utterly destroying the Marlins?
I really do think Bourn is at least in the top 4 right now. He’s been that great. Has anyone else noticed that, as fast as he is, he always looks completely exhausted after having to run? It’s pretty funny….
“Gaud” must be Spanish for “Durb”
@61, I noticed that, too. I remember a day game when he bunted foul, and he took a full minute to get back to home plate; looked like he had just returned a punt for 6.
He also looks completely out of control while he’s running. Some fast guys are in complete control, run like they’ve been coached on perfect form. Bourn looks like all knees and elbows, and his jersey is bouncing in all directions.
Anybody see that tool race just now? The Marlins broadcast showed it. Genuinely funny in a dorky slapstick kinda way.
@62, winner.
Thank you, Alex. Glad someone is paying attention!
@62, see 65.
@59, run for president. At least not till he turns 35. Course, hopefully he’ll still be slinging for the Braves then.
Wow, Mike Dunn has an ERA of 9.95. He used to be good. Now he’s just a white flag.
I’m rooting for Beachy to get the complete game shutout.
He’s so dreamy.
It would be nice for sentimental reasons, but Beachy’s already at 110 pitches. I’d really be happier if they just slapped him on the butt, sent him to the showers, and let Durbin clean up. No reason to risk it.
69 — Well, it’s a 7 inning sample size.
Carlos Ruiz is 3-3 tonight. He belongs in the MVP discussion as well, believe it or not.
I think some posters want a woman who pretends to know nothing about baseball even though she has been going to games with her family since she was young. They need their egos built up. Bethany does not play that game. I just read the first few posts and had to get it out of my system.
Y’know, no problem at all with sending Beachy out there to finish it out. He’s 25, his joints are all formed, and there’s nothing wrong with asking him to throw 125 pitches.
Obviously if he looks like he’s lost it, you pull him. But if he wants to go, let him go.
Don’t bother with the shutout idea. Put Durbin in.
@72: It’s pretty unlikely he’s going to hurt himself with a few more pitches. If he runs into any trouble at all or starts laboring it, Fredi will yank him. He also has a seven run lead so he probably won’t overthrow his pitches.
To me, getting deep into games is one of those things Beachy has worked on all year. A shutout will do a lot for his confidence going forward.
Of course, Fredi goes with the emotion.
Brandon Beachy is awesome.
Hard to disagree with Bethany at this point.
This was only the third complete game shutout for the Braves since 2009. And it was Brandon Beachy. Nice.
Oh, Tad, your prediction sucked.
WOOOO! Way to go Brandon!!!
Tom Glavine: “I really like the way his changeup is coming around. I think it’s gonna be a bigger and bigger weapon for him.”
Well, then.
Simply put, awesome.
“Of course, Fredi goes with the emotion.”
Yeah, because the whole ‘OMG he’s gonna hurt himself with 200 whole innings in a seasn even though pitchers used to throw 300+’ thing isn’t just emotional thinking.
JJ is basically done, Hanson is an injury waiting to happen, Huddy is getting old, Minor is inconsistent. We can’t live without Beachy!!!
Well done, Brandon, you marvelous beast.
I think some posters want a woman who pretends to know nothing about baseball even though she has been going to games with her family since she was young.
I think it’s pretty cool when a woman is knowledgeable about baseball.
Dan, let’s just agree to disagree. Two completely different mindset, no need to argue.
@89, yep.
@86: Exactly. Show the evidence that a mature pitcher is more likely to be hurt on the 125th pitch than the 80th (or 20th for that matter).
Then again, I’m in Chicago—where Tim Thibodeau surely thought the same thing about Derrick Rose.
Bah, the Pirates are about the blow the game against the Nats.
Brandon Beachy is 25 years old. He can throw 120 pitches in a shutout and it not be a problem.
First place! Again!
Nope, they hung on to win.
He clearly can throw 120 pitches in a shutout. I’m just naturally risk-averse when it comes to a guy like him.
Woo hoo! Stupid Friggin’ Pirates didn’t choke.
We got our half game up back.
Bethany with the ojom esrever
David O, if his mechanics are as perfect on the 125th pitch as they were on the 80th, or the 20th, then he’s probably no more likely to get injured. But the longer a pitcher goes in a game, the tireder he gets, the harder it is for him to repeat his mechanics precisely.
And either way, there’s a nonzero risk of injury on every pitch. So I was just arguing against exposing him to further risk. Obviously, he pitched brilliantly. Like I say, I’m just risk-averse.
Beth Keener – “And he did that tonight, a no hitter. Not a no hitter. Well, I guess it would be a no decision. No scores, no nothing.”
Welcome to the Braves post game show. Next up, Brian Jordan.
I saw Suzy Kolber when she was just a local West Palm Beach reporter. She was pretty lousy when it came to talking baseball. Erin Andrews was, too. They both are now pretty good at talking baseball.
Beth Keener…not so sure about her. She is cute, though.
Beachy had pretty easy innings tonight. They’re weren’t a lot of stressful pitches for him, so I dont think that 120 was a high number.
Keener is forgiveable because she’s nice to look at. However, the twitter reports are awful. Brian Jordan just sucks.
Beachy is our best starting pitcher at the moment and the one guy we can’t lose. I don’t see the problem of Beachy not pitching the ninth inning as much as you see the importance of having Beachy tried for the shutout. Of course he can do it, but who knows what’s the consequence? Perhaps we will find out with his effectiveness in his next start.
There are consequences for being over-protective, too. You need to let a pitcher go at some point to see what his limits are, and so that he eventually has the endurance to stay in the close games to the end when you need him to.
Complete game shutouts for the Braves and for my ‘Dores on the same night…what are the odds?
And TJ Pecoraro, for VU, less than a year out from Tommy John surgery…impressive, kid.
I understand the “just let the back end of the bullpen close it down and be safe with the arm” argument. I really do. But Brandon Beachy is a baseball player, and I assure you Brandon Beachy *wanted* to close out the game, he thought he had *earned the right* to close out the game, and he wanted to earn the complete game shut out. And when you’re managing people, you have to account for things like that, and not say “no, it doesn’t matter that you went out there and competed like mad for eight innings and did everything you were asked to and more, I’m going to be conservative and risk averse and pull you regardless of what you want.” You have to manage to the people, not the spreadsheet. I know that sounds like a cliche attack on statnerds, but it’s not. It’s just the reality of dealing with human beings instead of probability matrices.
Fredi told his team tonight that if you earn it, he will let you grab the golden ring. That’s not important to us watching and second guessing every decision in the internet, but it’s exceptionally important to the men who play the game for him, a Fredi has to have those guys believing that he’s got their back all the time. It was the right decision.
How many pitches did he throw in the 9th? It couldnt have been too many. Im sure Fredi wouldve pulled him there at the first sign of trouble. If we are arguing/debating about our starter finishing a complete game shutout, its been a good day.
#107 – Wasnt there some talk last year about the starters being frustrated with Fredi pulling them too early? I think Fredi made the right call tonight. The pitchers will respect the fact that he will let them close out what they started.
MLB.com says Beachy is “absolutely” the best starting pitcher in the majors right now. Who here agrees with that?
@107:
I totally agree with this. This is a milestone for a starting pitcher. And it has to be especially rewarding for a guy who was undrafted out of college just a few years back.
I understand the risk aversion of a lot of people on the board—Schafer, Heyward, and Prado have each been casualties of the hands-off approach the Braves staff has employed in recent years. And it was a 7-0 game.
But you never know—the respect Fredi earned from Brandon might be enough to let Brandon feel comfortable letting Fredi know something is bothering him about his arm in the future, or becomes a moment to think back to when he gets in a tight spot, or helps him cope with getting yanked during a poor performance later this year. Hell, it might even make Braves hitters feel better about getting shutout in the future, knowing that one of their own did it earlier in the year.
I can’t speak to what provides comfort to professional athletes. But if managers and players make decisions based on emotion, I’m not about to discount the chance that they are doing it for a reason.
By the way, I appreciate no one ridiculing me for mistaking *Tom* Thibodeau’s name earlier. I surely deserved it.
@110: He hasn’t earned that title. Verlander was the AL *MVP* last year. I’d rather build around Beachy (and his team control), but I’d rather have Doc if I were building to win this year.
I do think he’s a special player. He is athletic, has an easy motion that suggests durability, has excellent control and movement on his pitches, and out thinks hitters. In short, he is exactly like the aces we were spoiled with in the 90s.
Well he was the ERA leader coming into tonight, and certainly will stay there tomorrow. I’ll be interested to see tonight’s performance factored into the advanced stats when they update later. Fangraphs has him pretty far down the list, right now.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=6&season=2012&month=0
I wouldn’t count this as a bad decision. It’s clearly defensible, but it’s one I wouldn’t have made unless it would’ve seriously aggravated Beachy to be pulled. I can see Beachy anchoring this rotation in the playoffs, and I wouldn’t let anything interfere with that. If I were the team’s coach, I’d be sure to let Beachy know that when I took him out of the game.
I’d have probably done the same thing as Fredi, and for many of the reasons Sam enumerates, but it’s an argument against a null set. There’s no good reason not to manage people in that way on any occasion, until there’s a negative impact, and you won’t know that until after the fact if, then. Actuarial data exists and is useful because negative events really do happen, and correlate to specific behaviors, albeit hazily in the specific case of pitching use.
Or more simply put, I am sure Mark Prior wanted to stay in all those ballgames, but I’d bet he sees things a little differently now.
@82 .. yea it did suck and I hope all mine suck if they are gonna turn out like tonight … just wish they sucked when Minir pitches cause until he shows different Im gonna predict
#60
Only thing better would be to destroy the Marlins on the field, then torch their awful uniforms.
With the Phillies win, every team in the NL East is over .500. I think winning this thing will be a dogfight.
Emotionally, I would also let Beachy go for the complete game shutout. It’s great for the kid. Rationally, that’s another 12 pitches I can save for the playoff.
Just noticed that Scott Diamond is starting today. He’s 2-0 with 14 innings pitched in 2 starts and hasn’t allowed a run.
”That’s what I hate about the National League; you have to take the pitcher out for offense,” Guillen said.
Stupid Ozzie. That’s why we hate you.
@122
Unless your pitcher is Brandon ‘Take two and go to right’ Beachy.
On our first date, I knew I was toast when my future wife told me that, as a child, her favorite player was Roberto Clemente.
Well, that and her outstanding decolletage …
Tommy Hanson wears Brandon Beachy pajamas. Or should.
THAT is how you pitch in the Major Leagues.
Loved his low-key reaction at the end.
I need to really work on managing my expectations with Beachy. There are countless guys who have had this streak of success and flamed out. I definitely don’t want that for Beachy.
Can Walker and Fletcher send Larry Parrish ‘The Idiot’s Guide To Being a Good Hitting Coach’?
Cool writeup about Beachy on ESPN today: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/24556/brandon-beachy-baseballs-underrated-ace
@127 Why bother?
MLB.com says Beachy is “absolutely” the best starting pitcher in the majors right now. Who here agrees with that?
There is a big difference in being the *best* starting pitcher and pitching the best. It would be hard to pick Beachy over Halladay, Felix, Verlander, and Cliff Lee. Its great that he’s in the conversation though.
Remember, even John Kruk was on ESPN last year talking about JJ/Halladay and who was the best pitcher in the NL.
@113 – Here’s my stab at interpreting the Fangraphs stats:
– Beachy is being dinged by a pretty pedestrian strikout rate. 6.5 K/9 right now. That’s too low for ace standards (unless your name is Greg Maddux and you don’t walk anybody).
– Beachy is enjoying a very low BABIP of .214. History shows that there is likely no way to sustain a number that low. He’s getting some good luck for sure (Beachy himself atmitted as much in postgame when he mentioned line drives hit right at guys) but he is still pitching very well.
– His HR/9 rate is 0.17. This, too, is just crazy low. He does a good job of keeping the ball in the park, but nobody is this good.
All said, I think he’s pitching great, though a few more strikeouts would be nice and expect him to surrender more than just one homer in his next 8 starts.
Oh, and dreamy eyes. The man has dreamy eyes.
His K numbers may be a touch low, but his whip is under 1. I believe he’s trying to keep those K numbers down a little in order to get deeper into the games. He also has an 280ERA+. Thats not sustainable, sure, but he sure is pitching like an ace.
106—Amen. TPec was awesome last night and is quite a remarkable story. Boy, has this team ever needed him, too.
@107 – But Brandon Beachy is a baseball player, and I assure you Brandon Beachy *wanted* to close out the game, he thought he had *earned the right* to close out the game, and he wanted to earn the complete game shut out.
On Gonzalez not needing to even ask how he felt about ninth:
“It means a lot. They’ve noticed what I’m trying to do and they’re giving me the opportunities. I really appreciate that.” – Brandon Beachy
The current makeup of our defense definitely favors a flyball pitcher, so while he’s due for some regression it might not be all that severe. He kinda reminds me of Tom Seaver right now.
Any time you let a pitcher pitch, there is a risk he gets hurt. That risk tends be higher (we believe) when the pitcher is going multiple days consecutively (in the case of a reliever) or throwing a lot more pitches than he’s used to, or more precisely, more stressful pitches than he’s useful.
AAR is right that when you leave Beachy in, there’s a nonzero risk of injury, but in last night’s particular case, I’m not convinced it’s higher than it was in the first inning. With the game in hand, you can make the argument that you should pull him ’cause it’s better for everyone involved if Durbin is out there taking that risk in the 9th with a 7 run lead, but I doubt Beachy would agree/care. Baseball is a game played by people, so I have no problem with Beachy getting to pitch the 9th with as many pitches as he’d had. His stuff looked fine, he didn’t appear to be laboring, etc. And realistically, for an established starter, 120 IP is not that many.
@131
I think the dreamy eyes are the key to success. That’s what my fiance thinks, anyway.
Yeah, he has some really good peripherals, but lots of guys have had good secondary stats and lost it either way. He’s going to give up more home runs, and he’ll probably walk a few more guys, so we’ll see where it goes.
It is, however, very fun to watch how good he is right now, and I hope he keeps it up.
@136, I still generally agree, but Beachy has pitched a total of 400 innings in his entire pro baseball career, and only twice passed 120ip/season. His arm is quite young.
Beachy’s pitch count per outing.
April 9th – 98
April 15th – 103
April 20th – 111
April 25th – 109
May 1st – 104
May 6th – 109
May 12th – 99
May 17th – 122
So he’s been treated with absolute consistency, except for the one time there was an extra cap-feather to chase. Looks fine to me.
I look forward to the day when someone has a perfect game through 8 and gets pulled because he’s got 100 pitches. That’s really no different than wanting to pull Beachy last night. Slightly more extreme perhaps, but the exact same line of thinking. Doesn’t anyone want to have fun anymore? Yeesh!
Not counting Chipper, the team leader in OPS is Prado. Interesting.
Besides the fact that you’re going to have a tough time convincing me that pitch counts have reduced pitcher injuries at all, by the way. All it’s done is make it more likely that they’ll be humorlessly yanked from the game right before they have the chance to do something great.
Has anyone else noticed that Beachy looks exactly like Ted Mosby?
I don’t think there is a problem with having Beachy finish the game. Using pitch counts as an absolute bright line is, I think, a mistake. This was not a particularly stressful game, he had a substantial lead for most of the night. I agree with Sam that a 25 year old ought to be able to throw 120 pitches once in a while. I think pitchers have become satisfied with going 6 innings. It drives me nuts. The goal should be to pitch 9 innings, understanding that in today’s game, that won’t happen too much. But I think when you have a chance to get a complete game–especially a shutout–without it being too much of a struggle,you should take it.
BTW, for anyone living in the DC area or who will be here, I have two extra tickets to the Braves-Nats game on June 1 that I am willing to give away (due to a miscommunication with the person who runs the season ticket package, I have two other tickets to that game in another part of the stadium). For those who have been to the Nats ballpark, they are in the 400 section. If anyone is interested, my email is mwarrenschneider@gmail.com.
Does anyone really have problem with Beachy going 9 and throwing only 122 pitches?
Maybe if he was on three days rest.
I think pitch counts are a little over ratted.
The focus on pitch counts has probably been an overcorrection — but injury is only one factor in why pitchers get pulled earlier than they used to. Fatigue is also a factor — pitchers are now taught to give max effort on every pitch, so they wear out quicker. Take a look at Livan Hernandez to see how lots of those 300+ innings guys used to pitch.
Also, relievers are specialized, and not just failed starters anymore. A tiring Tom Seaver (since I have his BBRef page up already) was probably still a better option than what was available in the bullpen, but now seemingly everybody has three or more strikeout-per-inning relievers.
Oof, Teheran got lit up last night.
Teheran is not ready. He is giving up more HRs too.
I don’t think complete games are the be and end all, but I really miss the days when starters pitched lots of innings and finished games. I understand the game has changed, but I hate seeing teams have to use five or six pitchers to finish a game. Although I hated the outcome, I think there was something truly heroic about Jack Morris going all 10 innings in Game 7. Specialization in all sports has, for me, taken something out of the games. This has nothing to do with the use of bullpens for tactical or helath reasons, which I understand.
@141, Nick: Damian Moss! Several years ago, no-hitter through 7 with 100+ pitches. Bobby took him out. Oh yeah, Moss had about 7 or so BBs.
Recapped.
@145 Damn, wish I knew that sooner. Already got a pair for that game.