So, you see the poll on the right is not reaching any clear decision, plus I screwed it up by initially forgetting DANNY. Anyway, if you know how my mind works, it was probably inevitable that I’d have a 64-man Bad Braves Bracket. These players all played for the Braves from 1978 on, and they were all objectively below-average. But who was the worst? They’re divided up into regions: Starters, Relievers, Infielders (including catchers) and Outfielders.
STARTERS
1 Len Barker
2 Kyle Davies
3 Bob Walk
4 Albie Lopez
5 Tommy Boggs
6 Larry McWilliams
7 Mickey Mahler
8 Pete Smith
9 Shane Reynolds
10 Lance Cormier
11 Marty Clary
12 Jo-Jo Reyes
13 Rick Matula
14 Derek Lilliquist
15 Craig McMurtry
16 Jim Bouton
RELIEVERS
1 Dan Kolb
2 Bruce Sutter
3 Chris Reitsma
4 Joe Boever
5 Tyler Kali Yates
6 Dave Campbell
7 Ed Olwine
8 Justin Speier
9 Brad Clontz
10 Chris Resop
11 Stan Belinda
12 Adam Bernero
13 Manny Acosta
14 Joe Slusarski
15 Matt Whiteside
16 Charlie Kerfeld
OUTFIELDERS
1 Jeff Francoeur
2 Omar Moreno
3 Brad Komminsk
4 Barry Bonnell
5 Raul Mondesi
6 Terry Blocker
7 Greg Norton
8 Rowland Office
9 Reggie Sanders
10 Terry Harper
11 Ryan Langerhans
12 Mike Kelly
13 Albert Hall
14 Dave Gallagher
15 Danny Bautista
16 Brian Jordan (2.0) Rufino Linares
INFIELDERS
1 Corky Miller
2 Andres Thomas
3 Ken Oberkfell
4 Jerry Royster
5 Gerald Perry
6 Keith Lockhart
7 Jim Presley
8 Rico Brogna
9 Ken Caminiti
10 Scott Thorman
11 Wes Helms
12 Chris Woodward
13 Bret Boone
14 Henry Blanco
15 Robert Fick
16 Rafael Belliard
We’ll use the polls on the right and I’ll try to have one vote a day (except weekends).
NCAA Tourney style?
I refuse to participate unless I’m granted the ability to vote for Chip Caray.
EDIT: Also—no Kim Jong-il?
Damn,
With that list, how did we ever win a game? Let alone 14 more or less consecutive division crowns.
Digging that list out should be shown on the series “Worst Jobs in History”. Picking up each name is like picking up a half rotted corpse.
Chip is the announcer, duh. Really appropriate punishment would be to make him work with Billy Packer.
Wow, I JC’ed myself again.
To repeat, I like PW’s Norton Virus pic and have posted it on Facebook.
Kim got cut for objective reasons — his good year with the team was good enough that his overall numbers were above average. He was 16-13 with a 3.70 ERA as a Brave!
(from the previous thread)
#86
Chipper “caught it” for a few weeks but appears to be back on antibiotics.
This doesn’t count the virus he once had from that ‘Hooters waitress’….hay yo!
(Sorry, needed to make that joke and I wrote as Mac switched threads on me…back to our originally scheduled programming…)
It’s not fair that Andruw isn’t included in your outfielders.
The perennial gold glover who hit 368 homers as a Brave and holds the Atlanta single-season records for homers and RBI? Alex, you need to get a hold on your hate.
The only problem with the pic is the year on the box. Needs to be ’09. Otherwise, outstanding.
For my voting criteria, just seeing the candidate’s name should produce an audible grunt.
And perhaps Jeffy deserves special recognition, like naming the award after him.
I realize Russ Ortiz’s stats were actually not bad with the Braves but when he was pitching, I just couldn’t watch. I couldn’t bear it, just made me very uncomfortable.
I don’t really like the inclusion of Brian Jordan 2.0. I don’t think you can only vote for part of a guy’s career with the Braves. Yes, he was awful the second time, but so were Terry Pendleton, Otis Nixon, and lotsa the other retread former Braves that JS inexplicably brought back.
In place of Brian Jordan 2.0, may I suggest B.J. Surhoff?
How in the hell did Len Barker pitch a perfect game? There are some random pitchers to have pitched no-hitters, but the pitchers who have pitched perfect games, while not exactly an accurate cross-section of the best pitchers in history, were generally great-to-excellent pitchers. And then there’s Len Barker. I suppose you could argue Kenny Rogers, but I recall him being much better back in the mid 90s.
Also, I don’t mean to criticize. I’m sure it’s not easy to put a list such as this together and there are bound to be omissions. But that being said, no Mark Redman?
EDIT: Incidentally, though, I agree with your No. 1 in all four categories.
Lineup:
Diaz 9, Prado 4, Chipper 5, McCann 2, Anderson 7, Escobar 6, LaRoche 3, Church 8, Hanson 1
Also, thanks to everyone for your compliments on How Bobby Would Have Managed History. I nominate Marc as the chief blogger.
How would Bobby have managed 9/11 and Pearl Harbor?
Redman didn’t make enough starts — my arbitrary cutoff was ten.
I really like this idea, and I think we should get to the voting forthwith. Hmm. One vote per game thread and we still won’t even get to the round of 16 before the season ends. I guess it’ll give us something to do to start the off-season.
David Wright’s new helmet is the headgear equivalent of David Byrne’s suit in Stop Making Sense.
Mac, how about worst coach and worst announcer categories?
Pearl Harbor…hmmm…starter getting shelled in the first inning, nobody warming up….probably just leave Lowe out there to take his lumps I guess.
@14,
For that matter Don Larsen, who had a much worse career than Kenny Rogers.
@17,
Thanks, Alex, I think.
@18,
At one time, we did Bobby and Pearl Harbor. It was along the lines of “you have to give those Japanese credit. They were tough today.”
Re: Jordan 2.0. I dunno. Here’s the case for him. Even his “good” years weren’t that good. I made a list, the most runs created below position by an outfielder for the Braves, 1978-2009. He’s the worst, 60 below, followed by Harper and Francoeur. He’s not that bad compared to all players — he’s actually right ahead of Brett Butler and right behind Otis Nixon.
If I can be talked out of Jordan, Surhoff is a possibility, though actually his per-PA numbers aren’t much worse than Jordan’s. Blanco? Cito Gaston was terrible as a Brave.
“We’ll just have to get them over the next four years.”
“Bobby, are there any plans to call up the atomic bomb?”
“Well, you have to take your time there. Our conventional bombs are doing a good job.”
I have to agree on some of the Brian Jordan and Andruw sentiment. If we can have a Brian Jordan 2.0, why can’t we have a category for Jones’ last year in Atlanta? I’m also surprised that Mark Redman isn’t on the list. Whatever the case, this is a difficult list – so many really bad players to choose from, where do I start?
Rowland Office? Say it ain’t so.
And where’s Denny McLain?
And no room for Hal “Pitchfork Fingers” King behind the plate?
Clancy?
Okay, show of hands: Who wants Redman on there? He only made five starts. Everyone else had at least ten, except Bouton, who got a famous guy exception.
Mac, looking at this list, I realize how old I am. This is pretty much a post-1980 set of players and limiting it to that era merely scratches the surface of bad Braves baseball in Atlanta.
This is everybody who made at least one start in the time period:
Via Peanut:
1. Diaz RF
2. Prado 2B
3. Chipper 3B
4. McCann C
5. Anderson LF
6. Escobar SS
7. LaRoche 1B
8. Church CF
9. Hanson P
Denny McLain only had 8 GS. I suppose he could qualify under the famous athlete who played a mean B-3 organ and was convicted of racketeering exemption.
Also McLain’s season with the Braves was 1972, before my time and the cutoff point.
i cant vote because i keep getting sidetracked between who was actually the “worst”and the guys that i hated the most..looking up the numbers brings back too many bad memories and i’m afraid i’ll find someone worse than Chuck Tanners” helluva player Omar.
Some non bad Braves thoughts generated by Mac’s list.
The “games started” really dropped like a rock after Avery and Millwood.
Jorge Campillo. i know he had shoulder injury and surgery (May or maybe earlier?), but is anybody hearing from or about him? If he is even “4.5 ERA 7 to 8 inning Jorge Campillo” again by next spring, then he would provide even more SP depth / trade bait.
Thinking it over, it’s not fair to Jordan to hold him to different standards. When I was picking my 44 Greatest, I eliminated him because his second tour of duty was so bad. This time, I separated out his second stint. Not fair. So I’ll put someone else there. I’m leaning Rufino Linares.
Doesn’t matter, Francoeur will steamroll whomever he faces.
I’m putting a hand up for Mark Redman if for no other reason than because he pitching in the All Star game the year before the Braves signed him and we had to read the stories about how he prepared with the cut outs in his basement.
If we could just swap LaRoche and Anderson in the lineup…
Mets offering a little help today, up 8-3 vs Colorado in the 9th.
I voted for (against?) Kolb.
If Jordan were below the Lockhart Line, it’d be one thing. But he’s a decent guy who just sucked hard the second time around. Thanks, Mac.
How about this? How would Bobby react to Sherman marching into Atlanta?
From Mark Bradley:
“I continue to believe Norton is on the roster because he has a lovely voice, perfect for bus ride singalongs.”
Priceless.
seriously, the braves are 29-19 since dumping francoeur. what would it take to keep this core team next year, with a few tweeks (hudson in for vazquez, heyward for garret, conrad for norton). if the braves trade vazquez and let kelly walk, do they have enough money to sign laroche, soriano, and gonzalez? could you imagine what this team could do?
mclouth
prado
chipper
laroche
mccann
escobar
heyward
diaz/church
bench
conrad
diaz/church
infante
barbaro?
ross
rotation:
hudson
jurrjens
lowe
hanson
kawakami
pen:
medlen
soriano
gonzo
o’flaherty
moylan
????
????
sorry if i’m beating a dead horse, but i get SO DARN EXCITED!
For anyone who cares, it’s amusing to see Spurrier use a 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense, and have success.
He’s pretty good.
How long was that?
Can’t believe Mac put me on the list.
ryan c, I’m with ya, but why would you dump vasquez and not lowe?
Thoughts on the bad list. Pitchers: I always liked Tommy Boggs. Sure, he was always hurt and he never was any good, but somehow I always had hope.
Relievers: I know everyone hates Kolb, but honest to God, I had a nauseous feeling just seeing Bruce Sutter’s name brought up in his Braves career. (If anyone ever desecrates his HOF Plaque I’ll probably be the leading suspect) Outfielders: Three guys on here I wouldn’t have listed. A)Barry Bonnell he actually had a good month and a half about 78 or 79. B) Rowland Office, I always thought he was cool, which the Braves didn’t have an abundance of in ’77. C) Terry Harper, he had some big hits for us in the last week of the ’82 season, plus he got screwed on that play at the bullpen fence. Infielders: Jerry Royster and Gerald Perry look like Ruth and Gehrig compared to Miller and Obie-None.
Joe, translated: “Kotchman was a pain.”
Take your time, Garret. It’s not an important game or anything.
Boy, ACHE really played that single into a double well.
Looks like the good Ricky Nolasco showed up tonight.
The Atlanta Braves: taking “station to station baseball” to a new level.
FWIW, Mikie Minor’s line vs. Augusta tonight: 5 IP, 0 R, 5 H, 0 BB, 9 K
@56 I’ve been listening to the game and was wondering if anyone else found it odd that the Braves can’t score from 2B.
Hanson’s doing really well considering the strike zone is the size of a lunchbox.
@ 56/58 – Diaz totally got Snitker’d.
This is the time you use Norton.
Seems early for Norton. But he did what he was supposed to do.
New tag line!
Erm, Medlen shouldn’t even be in this game.
Edit: He definitely shouldn’t be facing Cody Ross.
Maybe Medlen can pitch again tomorrow.
Why was Hanson pulled?
Ugh
@66 pitch count.
Shock horror.
He shouldn’t have been in the game, he obviously didn’t have it when he walked Baker, looked ropy against Uggla and then gave up 3 straight doubles.
At what point do you think to yourself, you know what, I have a million pitchers in the pen because rosters expanded…there’s no harm in burning a few to get out of an inning.
Bobby has been channeling Grady Little lately.
Medlen is about to have his name associated with a verb for blowing a lead and/or completely blowing the game. As in, “It looks like he really Medlened that one. I’m shocked the manager kept him in while he kept getting hammered.”
I’m always fascinated when announcers switch to the passive voice, or erase the manager’s agency when discussing, passively, that manager’s stupidity.
Medlen clearly didn’t have it from the first at bat of the inning, and Sutton was all over it. But he never mentioned Cox, just talked about Medlen being out there as if he was there in a vacuum. In the radio narrative, Cox only existed to pull Medlen, who, they reminded us constantly, was working his third straight game and couldn’t locate his pitches. Somebody remind me who makes the decisions in the Braves dugout?
EDIT: Folks here have been saying it all year: the bullpen hasn’t been managed well and it will bite us before it’s all said and done. Well, the last two nights the bullpen has blown it. It happens, but there’s no room for error right now, and I doubt it’s gonna stop happening.
Bobby Cox is an absolute f*^king moron. I could tell Medlen
was tired last night. He’s hardly ever thrown two days in a row
this year, let along three.
Is it too late to add Medlen to the poll?
Forgettable 24 hours for Medlen.
28 seasons as a big-league manager and he still hasn’t learned you can’t send the same reliever out there three, four days in succession. Assuming the result holds, blowing what should have been a sweep is on Cox, and no one else.
At what point do you think to yourself, you know what, I have a million pitchers in the pen because rosters expanded…there’s no harm in burning a few to get out of an inning.
Have you seen the guys we added for roster expansion? Those aren’t options. If the starters are consistently done after five, you are going to have problems.
Scattershot, inexperienced arms are better than tired arms.
2 runs are on Chipper. He catches the pop up and it’s 4-3 heading to the 7th.
Edit: #77 When option 1 is giving up lots of doubles, I don’t care what option 2 is, I’m taking it.
#76 – who would you suggest? You have to use somebody. The whole bullpen is gassed.
I can’t take this anymore, Good Night.
@80: See comment 78. Logan, Valdez. They couldn’t possibly have done worse.
Bobby’s Homer! So, Robert, were you manager of the Braves are you telling me that after watching
Medlen pitch last night, and knowing that he has never pitched in the majors three days in a row, you would
have brought him out and then you would have sat on your hands and watched him get pounded to the tune
of four earned runs? Really?
Bobby has done a terrible job this year.
#82 – Not worse, probably about the same. Those guys are pretty much worthless.
@85: And even if they are the same, at least you rest the arms of guys who can get it done, so they actually can be effective when they pitch. And sending Medlen out there after he was shelled last night is grounds for commitment to an asylum in some cultures.
Cox is the fattest waste of space. Why is ATL paying this guy to sit on his lard azz all game and continue to make decisions that are detrimental to this team?
#83 – Well there wasn’t really a right answer to get through the last four innings. The good pitchers are tired and the bad pitchers are, well, bad.
This is why some teams add an extra arm or two at the deadline. We added Buddy Carlyle.
I really hate Tony LaRussa. But if he were managing this team we’d be in the lead for the wild card. Maybe even threatening the Phillies.
For those rightfully bailing on the Braves game, the NCST-SC game is going down to the wire…
I hope Bobby retires at the end of the year.
Whew, my Gamecocks escape with the win.
sheesh–I leave to get the kid to bed with a 3-1 lead and come back to a 8-3 deficit
Recap is up.
Glad I went to the UTC game tonight. At least football season is here so I can just forget about this abomination of a baseball team.
The ‘core’ of this team is not good enough to win a championship. Chipper is too old. Yunel is a head case. Low is too old. Hanson is too young. It is not fair to hope Heyward is the savior next year. The team is below average defensively, and the bullpen only has 3.5 arms they can count on, and two of them are free agents next year.
If the braves don’t go out and find an elite bat for the 3 or 4 hole they are going to struggle again next year. (time to move chipper down in the order)
If they braves don’t find a true closer (sorry Gonzo and Soriano are not closers, great setup men, but not elite closers) and some more reliable relievers next year they are going to be in trouble.
If they count on Chipper to continue to be ‘good Chipper’ they are going to be in trouble.
If the defense does not get better next year we are in trouble.
I just don’t see this team competing anytime soon. Wren spent too much money and thus lost too much flexibility on Lowe and Chipper’s extention.