New York Mets vs. Atlanta Braves – Box Score – July 17, 2009 – ESPN
The Braves retired Greg Maddux’s number before the game, and then Jair Jurrjens went out and retired the Mets like he was Greg Maddux. Not that he was under a whole lot of pressure. The closest thing to a jam he had all night was up 3-0 in the second when he gave up a leadoff double to Sheffield. Of course, Jeffy was due up next, and popped up on the first pitch. This is the sort of stuff you can’t make up.
You can’t make up how hot Martin Prado is, either. Prado doubled in the first, then came around, together with Chipper (who walked) on a double off the wall by McCann which was hit about as hard as you’ll ever see a ball hit. Yunel later singled home McCann to make it 3-0. In the third, Prado hit a leadoff homer, then McCann hit a towering homer with Chipper on first to break it open at 6-0. ACHE doubled in Chipper in the fifth to make it 7-0, and finally get Jerry Manuel off his butt to get poor Mike Pelphrey out of the game. It didn’t help, as the Braves added two more runs on a Yunel double (on which Gary Sheffield pulled up lame — you’d feel sorry for them, but they’re the Mets) and another on a Kotchman single. Kotchman added an RBI double in the seventh to break a streak of seven straight games with exactly one hit.
Jurrjens was terrific, allowing only one other hit after the Sheffield double, a Wright double in the fourth. Okay, he walked two, and threw 85 pitches in just six innings, which isn’t too Madduxlike, but it’ll do. It’ll more than do. The bullpen dregs — Logan, Valdez, Medlen — got an inning apiece to finish up, and allowed one walk (by Valdez) between them. Jeffy didn’t even get to make his fourth out of the game, which ended with him on deck. Sad, really.
All the regulars had at least one hit but McLouth. Brian and Yunel had three, Prado, Chipper, and Kotchman two, and McCann and Jones got the last few innings off. This game can be fun, sometimes. The Braves are back to .500, and if the Phillies-Marlins score holds up, will be tied for second at the end of the night.
How satisfying.
How severe did Sheff’s injury look? I saw some speculation that he might be done.
They brought the cart out for him, but I think he walked off under his own power.
If Sheff is done, so are the Mets. He’s the main thing holding them up THIS far, since they have all their other injuries.
Hey, Ashley…
According to the game story, Gonzalez says the “tendinitis” in his left elbow is now “inflammation” in his left forearm. I get nervous about forearm soreness; that seems to turn into serious elbow problems a lot of the time.
Mets and Phils tied… I’d rather be in third and 5 games back
Yes. More like that, please.
Will Sheffield be elected to the HOF? (Note that this is not the same question as: Does he deserve to be elected to the HOF?)
Deleted
I’m with Daniel. The Phils are really strong. The Marlins will fade. I’d much rather the Fins beat the Phils.
Sansho,
yeah probably at some point.
Sheffield won’t play for a while. Jeremy Reed will replace him. Jeff Francoeur will hit cleanup for the next month or more. Mac’s right. You can’t make this shit up.
@7
I don’t know. My big thing, kind of like Keltner lists, are both career numbers and MVP’s/Cy Youngs.
I’d be hesitant to vote for anyone without one. (Though I guess there’d be exceptions for during the Barry Bonds years)
Sheff has the career numbers, but…
Anyway, just my opinion.
I guess you can look at cleanup two different ways. Ending the inning clears the bases, too.
I don’t know. My big thing, kind of like Keltner lists, are both career numbers and MVP’s/Cy Youngs
So no Mel Ott or Mike Piazza etc. in the Hall? Interesting.
500 HRs doesn’t mean much any more. He was tainted by the Mitchell Report and his team-hopping. His only chance is if he reaches 3,000 hits but that could take 3-4 seasons.
To be fair, spike, he said career numbers, and both of those players have fantastic career numbers.
I love it when the two teams ahead of us go into extras. Keep those innings coming.
Gehrig has 2 MVP’s.
It’s not a cut and dry thing spike, I just think that a part of being in the Hall of Fame is being the best at some point of your career.
Sheffield is probably on the cusp and I’ve no real issues with him being in.
Again, just my opinion. It’s not a personal thing
500 HR’s would put you at 26th all-time. That still has a little meaning. Sheff is well into the top 100 all time in most offensive categories, and into the top 30 for most, along with 2 WS rings. He will get in, and should.
Pro: he has the traditional counting stats
Con: those counting stats don’t mean as much now
Pro: 9 All-Star teams and 3 top-3 MVP finishes
Con: No MVPs
Pro: He’s been the best player on several good teams
Con: He hasn’t always produced in the postseason
Pro: Fearsome aura
Con: Generally disliked by fans of any team other than that for whom he’s presently toiling
Pro: Go-to guy for quotes among sportswriters
Con: Petulant and weird
Pro: Never implicated in steroid scandals
Con: But it wouldn’t exactly be a surprise
I don’t know. He’ll have to wade through some loaded ballots, but I think he’ll eventually get in on the theory that he’s way better than Jim Rice.
To be fair, spike, he said career numbers, and both of those players have fantastic career numbers.
I thought he said Career #s AND MVP’s. My apologies if I misinterpreted.
I edited out Gehrig. I could come up with a few more, but I think I made my point.
And I’m not sure if it won’t be until the veterans committee puts him in; but he’ll go at some point.
Do I think he deserves it? Nah, unless he honestly never juiced.
Sheffield is linked to steroids through BALCO.
Sim Scores for Sheffield:
1. Fred McGriff (879)
2. Ken Griffey (866)
3. Reggie Jackson (852) *
4. Mickey Mantle (851) *
5. Billy Williams (848) *
6. Mel Ott (846) *
7. Eddie Mathews (840) *
8. Frank Thomas (837)
9. Mike Schmidt (836) *
10. Jeff Bagwell (834)
Anyway, MLB.com says it was a “cramp”.
Screw the Mets! Screw the Mets!
#22 I forgot about that. With a guy like Sheffield, that could be a determining factor.
FYI best OPS+ during division streak:
169 Javy ’03
168 Chipper ’99
162 Sheffield ’03
160 Chipper ’01
158 Klesko ’95
157 McGriff ’94
157 Gato ’98
157 Drew ’04
153 Chipper ’02
151 Chipper ’05
148 Chipper ’98
147 Justice ’94
141 Chipper ’00
140 Justice ’91
138 Sheffield ’02
1) MVP is a voting award. Often voters consider only players on playoff teams to be valuable. It all comes down to how you define value. I like winning games, some people would say making money for the franchise, MVP voters generally seem to say value is how much you help your team into the playoffs. You can be the best player around and not be MVP because you’re on a losing team.
2) You can be the best player at your position every year for your entire career and not be the MVP for all positions. I love spike’s Piazza example.
They were saying cramps for Sheff on TV. Not even a pulled hammy.
I would not be surprised to see him sit tomorrow, but he could bat in a pinch.
26- Ozzie Smith.
Wade Boggs, Tony Gwynn, Eddie Matthews. Lots of guys.
Andno signof Gonzo, Moylan, OR Soriano. Maybe Bobby is learning a thingor three? (Or maybe even he knows howto handle a 10 run lead….)
Let’s win tomorrow, then think about a sweep on Sunday.
Keep those innings coming!
Does anybody know if Hudson will be making his rehab start in Myrtle Beach Saturday night, or is he scheduled for Sunday? I’m going to be down there with the family for vacation and want to go check him out.
You can always find exceptions, and the fact that if you aren’t a legit power hitter, you probably won’t win an MVP plays into it, but again, the main point I was trying to make was that along with career numbers, I think that being the best your league at some point of your career should be a criterion for the HOF.
Cy Youngs and MVP’s, while not perfect, are a pretty good measure of that.
Seat Painter – If we gain a split of the next two, we did what we needed in this series. Nice to have more, of course.
Marvelous Martin over his last 65 AB (since the last day he did not start):
.431 BA, .662 SLG.
Phills and Fish in extras. Giants lost so we are only 5 out in the wild card. Though there are a few teams in front of us.
Bobby’s usually pretty good about keeping his studs out with leads larger than four runs unless they haven’t worked in a while.
Side question: Does anyone know how many more wins we would have if we didn’t bunt ever? I don’t know how to calculate such things. (There are a lot of components: out probability, value of advancing a base, chance of forcing an error, etc. I’m just wondering if any smart stat guy has ever taken a crack at just how damaging bunts are. I assume one has; I just can’t find a link.)
Confound it! Phillies scored.
6-4 now. I guess we will be tied for 2nd, but still 6 out.
Also, while it’s not as quantifiable, I like the way Frank Robinson put it:
“If you have to think about it, they’re not a Hall of Famer”
While Sheffield’s career number’s are impressive, how much did he really distinguish himself from his peers during the time he played?
Again, as I previously said, he’s on the cusp, and they’ve certainly put far more inferior players in the Hall, but with Sheffield, you have to think about it.
If Jair really wanted to honor Maddux he should have demanded Ross start for no apparent reason.
Lidge is really having some issues. Two walks and a wild pitch, but the Phils hang on 6-5.
Removed, as it was probably inappropriate. Sorry all.
Were the Marlins playing with a short bench in the last inning. Lidge gives up two walks in a row with one out and then Volstad comes in to pinch hit for the pitcher. They basically give lidge an out with a sac bunt, he then throws a wild pitch, then Uggla grounds out. Another team making it easier for the closer.
I count 13 position players used by the Marlins so no they didn’t have a short bench. At least no shorter than everyone else with this 12 and 13 man pitching staff madness.
Was at the game today, and I have to say, it was pretty awesome. Both the ceremony and then the complete and utter ass-kicking of the Mets. Even being accidentally hit in the face by the guy sitting next to me because he was wildly waving his arms around couldn’t dampen my spirits…heh. (Better yet, he did it because he was turning around to point at a Mets fan to taunt him. Can’t be too mad about that, I guess.)
I hope you had a better experience getting into the park than I did, Nick. I arrived late, couldn’t find parking, then finally got into the ballpark in the bottom of the 5th (about the same time Sheffield got hurt). It was fun other than that, though.
Can we have a Maddux retirement ceremony and a Braves win every night?
I think I was on the cusp of that. I arrived just as everything was starting to fill up and got into a lot way down the road in a place I’ve never had to park before. Which in turn caused a horrible experience getting back on the highway, as I was unfamiliar with the traffic patterns where I was parked and basically wound up at Lakewood Amphitheatre before I could turn around and go back north. But yeah, if I was 15 minutes later, it would’ve been a mess.
Frankly, I wish they would’ve just told us not to try and park like they did during the Red Sox and Yankees series. If they had done that, I’d have just taken MARTA and there wouldn’t have been any problems at all. But they didn’t, and they had a ridiculous amount of cars.
Was at an early dinner on Sunset Blvd tonight & I got texts from 2 different friends who were at The Ted for the Met beatdown.
“I’m at the Braves/Mets game. We’re stomping their guts out. This is awesome!”
“I’m at the game—where are Mets?”
Then I headed over to Dodger Stadium & that one was a first-round KO. Billingsley got bombed & Roy Oswalt was super-dominant, tossing a complete game. Shoulda had a shutout, but Hunter Pence lost a routine fly ball in the lights, giving O-Dog a triple.
It was “60’s Night,” so lotsa funny outfits at the game, lotsa vintage videos & music. When the game was over, they roped off the infield & allowed the crowd to come onto the outfield & watch a special video presentation—’60s videos interspersed with Dodger highlights from that decade—then fireworks.
I love fireworks at the end of baseball games. Always let’s me get out of the parking lot before everyone else. And in LA, that’s no small thing.
So we crush the Mets. The Triple A Mets. That’s all fine and good, but we got some serious issues.
I dare say we need a bullpen arm moreso than a another bat at this point in time (although both are huge needs to actually make a run at the Phils).
Ryan Church must’ve really pissed off someone with the Mets…to think they traded us straight up for Frenchy. Wow. I kinda feel like the guy who got the dog-van in Dumb and Dumber in the mini-motorcycle trade.
Hey, Nick – tell me the MARTA drill.
I’m coming from north of town (Kennesaw) and have always thought a MARTA shuttle made sense, but where do you pick it up?
(Why they didn’t build a rail spur to the Stadium, I’ll never know …)
hankonly-
you are gonna want to get on at North Springs if you’re taking Marta from the Kennesaw area.
The shuttle loads up at the old World of Coke plaza next to the entrance to Underground. $1.75 each way, I believe. Get off the train at Five Points, exit onto Peachtree, and walk two blocks east.
Thanks, guys. Another dumb question, however:
Where do you park for the shuttle? Art Center is always full. Do you pick up the bus in Marietta? (Why don’t I know this after all this time?)
Dunno, hank. I’m on the East-West line, so I usually take the train to the GSU station and walk the last mile or so down Capitol Avenue, because I’m cheap like that. It ends up taking about the same amount of time, and you don’t have to wait in a line.
Hank-
you’ll park at the North Springs MARTA station…take the Marta train to Underground Atlanta…where you will walk through Underground to get to the Marta bus shuttle, which will take you to the Ted.
I park in the Red Lot at the stadium and it never takes me more than 10-15 minutes from my seat in the stadium until I am north bound on the highway. I also come from north on I-75. Yesterday I left my house (north of Kennesaw) after 6:00 and was in my seats in time for all of the pre-game ceremony. You just need to know how to get in and out of the stadium area; if you follow everyone else you won’t get to the game on time.
hap-
did you leave in the 8th inning?
nope. I *never* leave early. last night I stayed for the fireworks.
Golf broadcasting note:
Ernie Johnson, Jr. >>>> Mike Tirico
anyone is better than Johnny Miller. Im a big fan of Faldo in the booth, Azinger also
Recealing comment from Furman Bisher: “Frank Wren, of course, handled the deal, but it had to be approved by Cox.”
So, who is really in charge?
The dry Brit humor works well — nobody’s better than Peter Alliss.
And, after ESPN’s US Open coverage, I can say that nobody is worse than Chris Berman. But we knew that already.
Hey Mac, what happened to the Road From Bristol stuff?
Game thread is up.
JC,
Source on Bisher? Last reference I am finding to a column by him is May 2. Is he being quoted elsewhere or posting to a “Fruman Bisher” site? Just curious.
I think there has been a significant problem on Cox being in charge. And, I agree that any manager, and Cox more than most, should have input into player personnel decisions. Cox just seems tohave too much and the wrong kind.
However, I also feel that Bowman’s blog from a couple of days ago citing an AL scout to the effect that “nobody wants to get a reliever after Bobby has had them because he wears them out” may turn out to be the first shot in the “get ready to move Cox” movement.
To the extent that “Peanut” is “parroting the company line” that line is clearly not coming from Bobby. Either it is Wren or Schuerholz (don’t believe Schuerholz will hold onto Bobby for dear life if Schuerholz thinks Bobby is hurting the won / loss record).
I agree with last night’s bullpen usage except for one point. Why pull Jair at 85 pitches? He had not labored at all. He seemed sharp. Any pitcher coming in would have gotten the same instrucitons, “Throw strikes and don’t walk anybody”. It was a fairly cool night (very cool by ATL July standards). Now,the 3 guys he used had not worked in 5 days, so they arguably “needed” work. And, not working any of them 2 innings means that they are all theoretically available today (which, with Santana pitching you would have to be thinking that would be mop up duty, rather than blow out duty).
But specifically on Logan. He is our only lefthander for now (unless EOF or Gonzo will be available and Cox knew that last nihgt). Tight game today with a good lefthander up (do the Mets have any of those right now? But, if they don’t, why use Logan last night?), you need to be able to use Logan (and, every other day until at least one of EOF or Gonzo is back). So, 1 more inning from Jair maybe saves the only lefty for another day. Or, 2 innings by Medlen might do the same.