ESPN – Braves vs. Phillies – Box Score – July 26, 2008
I am so angry right now… I really, really, really, hate this team. Francoeur the most, of course, but…
The Phillies took an early 3-0 lead, getting two runs in the second and one in the third. But the Braves erupted for nine runs in the fourth — off of Cole Hamels, mind you — and looked to be coasting. The big blow was a three-run homer by Teixeira, but everyone participated. (Francoeur, who sucks, was only able to manage a sac fly.)
Mike Hampton did indeed pitch, though he still hasn’t pitched well in three years. The top of the fifth ended with the most Francoeuriest moment in all of Francoeurdom, as Francoeur, who not only sucks but is extremely stupid, got thrown out at third to end the inning on a bloop single over third base. He apparently was thinking — or whatever it is he does in lieu of thinking — that “hey, we’re up six runs, why not?”
Of course, the Braves gave up seven runs in the bottom of the fifth. Hampton left without recording an out. It was 9-7 with two out when Boyer gave up a three-run homer. And that was it.
The Braves had baserunners all over the place, but couldn’t get any of them home. They didn’t leave anyone in the fourth, but left eight runners in the game, seven from the fifth through eighth innings. It was awful. As it this team. Sell.
http://tinyurl.com/6kgx4a
All the people saying sell, didn’t you hear Eric Karros during the game?
“There’s nothing to be gained by trading Teixeira.”
I’m convinced. Why aren’t you?
One run loss.
This was a terrible loss in a season of terrible losses.
I hope Bobby will finally realize this team is hopeless…especially that Jeffrey kid…
Hampton’s career is over and Blaine Boyer is a horrible pitcher who belongs in Little League.
Moves us more towards the ‘sell’ outcome plus good performances by Tex and Ohman….
Looks like a good day to me.
Looks like a good day to me.
Yes, who wants to contend when we can have the excitement of trading for some minor leagers. How fun.
Contend for what? We aren’t close to contending for anything.
Bob we are not that far away from contending.
We’re closer to finishing last than contending with this team. Only because the east has struggled, are we even as close as we are. This is just not a very good team, overall.
Last is a long way away. We’re locked in at fourth.
Francoeur sucks.
Francoeur sucks.
Francoeur sucks.
10 PRINT “FRANCOEUR SUCKS”
20 GOTO 10
If the Braves would have won today you guys wouldn’t even be thinking that way!!
Ever consider selling “Francoeur sucks” or “That’s our Jeffy™” shirts through something like CafePress Mac?
I find myself now hating everything Frenchy does, thanks to you all!
Even that one ball that was hit to the gap, i was yelling at him because I didnt think he was hustling enough, what a bunch of crap.
I say sell, we arent catching anyone, we got lucky to win last night, and we lost today its over.
If we cant sweep or at least take 2 out of 3 from the natspos at home with the season on the line we dont deserve to buy
Bob we are not that far away from contending.
Well, that’s crazy. It’s the end of July, we are under .500 and in fourth place with the wild card out of sight. There is zero chance of winning anyting this season.
That’s not what Roy said!!!
After that 7 run inning by the Phils I was so disgusted I went out, in the rain, and started my burn pile. Not an easy task, mind you.
Just pathetic.
Dan, I think I’d need a graphic for that, and photos aren’t allowed, while I don’t really have the artistic skills to come up with anything applicable (like a bat swinging through a pitch, or a ball thrown over a catcher’s head).
I would totally buy a “Francoeur Sucks!” oven mitt.
Completely off-topic, but CSS is showing a Tacoma-Memphis game, and Tacoma just brought in Jorge Sosa to pitch.
Man, I’ve really been enjoying this ricflair character.
If the Braves would have won today you guys wouldn’t even be thinking that way!!
Really? You think we started thinking this way today? I and others have been repeatedly calling for the Braves to sell for weeks (Trade Tex for Prospex). The past week especially it has been the dominant topic of conversation. Yet, in bizarro-ricflair world, this all started because the Braves lost today. Right.
Also, ricflair, what’s the deal? You’ve made several posts in this thread, yet haven’t once sniped KJ? I’m confused.
What’s the probability of losing a game when you have a nine run inning? It’s got to be astonomically low. I wonder how many times that has even happened in the history of baseball?
I’m just flabbergasted about this team. There is nothing more to say. They find new and more creative ways to lose. This team epitomizes the term losers. I’m as anti-Frenchy as anyone but it’s a stretch to blame Francoeur for losing this game because he got thrown out with a six-run lead.
The weird thing is that they held the Phillies after the fifth inning. I didn’t think there was any way the game would stay 10-9. You have to score more runs in this ballpark on a hot day.
Rob Neyer probably thinks the Braves are ready to make a run because, after all, look at their run differential. But three years of continually blowing key games has to mean something.
“Yes, who wants to contend when we can have the excitement of trading for some minor leagers. How fun.”
That there are people who think this team is close to contending are out of their minds. What more do you need to see? Seriously. Is there a more gut wrenching loss that needs to be experienced? Is there a crazier ploy that the manager needs to employ? Is there a mysterious statistic not yet discovered that will convince that several clubs have AA outfields with more production? Not only is this team bad; it’s probably going to get worse. The bottom of the rotation is only now regressing to the mean.
“Selling” does not mean mortgaging next season, not if it’s done right. For the umteenth time.
Completely off-topic, but CSS is showing a Tacoma-Memphis game, and Tacoma just brought in Jorge Sosa to pitch.
I’m watching O’s-Angels and the O’s brought in Lance Cormier to pitch to Figgins with two out, bases loaded. Struck him out.
Dammit, if we couldn’t get Aaron past Bonds, can we at least get Maddux past Martinez?
Douglass just telling everyone my opinion. I could care less what you think. So your telling me that if the Braves swept Philly this weekend you still would want them to sell. Bullshit you would.
The problem with selling–which I think is the right way to go–is that there doesn’t appear to be a strong market for Tex. RSox are a stretch; Mets and Yanks are out. Probably down to the two LA teams, AZ, and the Rays. Any I overlooked?
At this point, I think the Braves will be lucky to get an offer of Loney or Kotchman straight up; the draft choices may be better.
Maybe there are a few more teams in on Ohman but he’s less valuable.
Douglass you want to step into the ring with me pal?
Well I’ve given up trying to convince people that Jeff is just having an abyssmal stretch, and we shouldn’t give up on him yet. He does have talent though, maybe he’ll come around, and if he does I’m not sure there is enough crow left in Atlanta for all you doubters.
More importantly, however, why no mention of Royce Ring? He’s the one that kicked the door wide open for the Phillies in the 5th, and he had NO business being in that game. Bobby and Roger have really let me down with their management of the bullpen this year… I love Roger as a pitching coach, but maybe it’s time to bring in someone to help manage the bullpen. Cough, cough, Mazzone, cough cough.
ric, as you know, to be the man, you gotta beat the man, right?
Well, we are now 2-9 vs. the Phils this season. Take the long view and see that we need to get some return on our investments. It’s all about being the spoiler and next year at this point.
Even if they swept they would still probably be 6 out and behind 3 teams. They have ZERO chance this year. At least selling might bring in some interesting players or give some new kids a chance to step up.
Ring only gave up one hit, a single. I’m hard-pressed to see how this is his fault.
re: ricflair
I realize you’re telling everyone your opinion…just as I was telling everyone how hilariously out of touch I find you to be.
So you’re denying that I and others have been calling for the Braves to sell for weeks?
So your telling me that if the Braves swept Philly this weekend…
I knew there wasn’t a chance in hell of that happening. It didn’t by the way.
Douglass you want to step into the ring with me pal?
Wait, is this THE Rick Flair?!? Whoa.
I’ve never understood why everyone was so big on this series with the Phils. I mean, it’s not like sweeping them gets us any closer to the Mets or Marlins….
But yeah. So I get home just in time to find that Hampton is indeed pitching (into the 5th no less!), and the Braves somehow have managed to get a 9-3 lead! Then of course, they blow it all.
What I’m saying is, I didn’t get to hear the 9-run inning, but I did get to hear the 7-run inning. And Joe was calling it instead of somebody good…. Yuck.
Don’t give up. Don’t ever give up. I didn’t get to be a 16 time world champion by giving up.
ric,
We should still try to win games, certainly. But we’re more like Bob Armstrong refereeing your title match against Ron Fuller at this point. Know what I’m saying?
I’m glad you retired Flair, I didn’t need to see all that flab in HD anymore. Oh and let me also say I enjoyed watching Sting throw you around the ring throughout the 90s.
Now on to baseball, the worst thing we can do is force a trade for Tex. It just doesn’t appear the market is there and barring an injury I doubt a deal presents itself. More likely to trade Ohman and just get the picks for Tex.
The Braves will be able to get ONE of the following for Tex: James Loney, Conor Jackson, The Greek God of Walks or Casey Kotchman. I would take any of those four over one first round pick and one supplemental pick. Trade Tex.
I doubt the Angels would give up Kotchman straight up for Tex right now.
I will say this:
Regardless of which some reporter you saw on Fox today say(I’m looking at you Ken Rosenthal), if Frank Wren can’t get value equal to or greater than the compensatory picks for Tex or Ohman, he has no business being a GM.
Some of you are either severely overestimating the value of the compensatory picks or underestimating the value for Tex in this market, I think.
And we don’t have to get a Loney, Kotchman, or Jackson to match the value of the picks. Seriously, the picks are such wildcards, plus you have to pay their signing bonuses to get them to sign, plus it takes them longer to make it to the major leagues.
I’ll say it again: if Wren can’t get better value than that for a guy like Tex, he has no business being a GM.
Douglass,
Agreed 100%. There is a market for Teixeira; he’s the biggest name available and several teams have displayed interest. If Wren plays this right (and the upcoming offseason where he’ll have some money to play with), the Braves could be right back in the hunt in ’09.
Mac, regarding Francoeur:
I never liked Jeffy all that much to begin with, and I will not defend any of his shortcomings here, but your Francoeur bashing is really getting out of control. Mac, of course it’s your blog and you can write whatever you want, but it seems to me that a lot of it comes out of frustration, not rationalism. Of course he didn’t perform, but there’s at least half a dozen guys who didn’t. Isn’t Francoeur just your scapegoat for a lost season?
And let’s be fair, this one wasn’t all his fault. No recap but yours even mentioned him getting thrown out at third, and – stupid as it was – if it was any other player, you would not have mentioned it too, much less wasted more words on it than on any other incident.
Words are free.
One thing about this blog is that I make every effort to call players out for stupid play. Players fail, and I mention that, sometimes, but it happens. Doing outright stupid things doesn’t have to happen. I’ve called players out for stupid play in games that the Braves won or that they had no chance of winning.
And Francoeur really pissed me off with that play — especially since getting thrown out kept them from clearing the pitcher. And as for “scapegoat”, I have scapegoated him at times — but he really is the single biggest reason that the team has underperformed, and if they had a normal player in right field instead they would be, at minimum, three games better than they are, and probably more.
Oh, and when the play happened, I said (out loud, to nobody so I can’t prove it, but I did), “That’s great, now we’re going to lose.”
“That’s great, now we’re going to lose.”
I said that right before the game when I saw the pitching matchup. 😉
One player can’t sink a whole baseball team but if he could his name would be Jeff Francoeur.
After Pujols game winning homer against the Mets, I found myself again looking at his career stats. I know it’s accepted as fact by all at this point, but he really is mind-bogglingly good. His worst year he still put up a .955 OPS! A career line of .332/.423/.617. Already 300+ homeruns and he’s only 28. Even with elbow surgery looming, this guy stands to put up some unprecedented career numbers. He could even put A-Rod to shame.
Frustrating loss… this has become all too familiar unfortunately. Then again, a series win would just have been another big tease.
What I did really enjoy by the way was Will Ohman. He is really funny!
Brutality.
Sheer brutality.
#12:
while(1)
{
cout << “Francoeur Sucks”;
}
Just to be clear, it’s not that we actually think that this team has a chance of contending, it’s that it’s not supposed to be fun to give up on a season and start selling players who, under different circumstances, could be major cogs in a really good team, even if we know it’s the right thing to do. Why some of you seem to be deriving glee from the impending trades and are implying that you’re rooting for us to lose games like that so that we can make said trades is beyond me, but to be quite honest it’s kind of pissing me off. If you’re a fan, you’re not supposed to want to give up on your season and trade these types of players. That’s not to say that it’s not the right thing to do at this point, because it is, but if you folks who seem to be deriving joy from this could keep that sentiment to yourselves so that those of us who actually care can mourn the death of this year’s playoff hopes in peace, it would be much appreciated.
Sorry for the messup earlier in blaming Ring, I actually noticed it later myself. One hit, a single to Howard of all people, is hardly blameworthy. It seemed like he was responsible for more while I was watching it on Gameday.
I’m out west, so FOX thought I’d rather see the Yanks and Sox play for the umpteenth time on TV this year, so I didn’t get to watch it live. I just had to get pissed at somebody, and I really do try to like Blaine Boyer.
Oh, and catching up on another comment.
The single biggest reason we’ve underperformed is circumstance, not just Francoeur alone. The world has never before seen so many crucial injuries and excruciating one-run losses. Not to mention what may be the slump of the decade in right field.
For those of you who doubt we still have a chance: The Rockies were 5.5 games out and 4th place in their division one year ago today. I figure if we can manage 39-20 we should be able to at least force a playoff. Not great odds, but there’s still hope. (This doesn’t mean we don’t trade someone if we get a great offer though.)
Greyson, while the Rockies went on an incredible run, their competition — the Padres, the Dodgers, and the D-Backs — were all seriously flawed. Those teams that rolled over game after game last August and September are the same teams that are all at .500 or below this year. The Rockies’ accomplishment was incredible, unprecedented, and a hell of a lot of fun to watch, but they benefited from weak, weak competition.
All good points Alex. Though I would say our competition isn’t perfect either, and I do have to correct one thing though: the Rockies run was far from unprecedented. I won’t go off listing all similar feats, because the obvious one will do. In 1914 the Braves won 60 of their last 73. 40-19 would probably do it for the Braves this year. Of course it isn’t 1914, but stranger things have happened… Did you catch the beginning of this year? What luck…
Is a run likely? No way. But so much of our life is dominated by actions guided by what seems likely. Fandom isn’t supposed to be that way. With Bobby at the helm, and mathmatical possibilities alive, there is always hope!
The biggest difference is last year’s Rockies were good and this year’s Braves are not.
I like Bobby’s decision to bring in Boyer in the 5th inning instead of saving him for the 8th, but all that overuse seemed to finally catch up to Blaine. And while it wasn’t completely Ring’s fault, his only reason for being on the roster is to get tough lefties out and he fails at that repeatedly. I hope he’s one of the players traded this week.
The good thing about yesterday is that if we had won it would have given Bobby and Wren the idea that this team could get back in it. After they lose again today then flop against the Cardinals, there will be no excuses not to do the right thing and sell.
Sigh … you know, I’m not surprised at all the Braves lost yesterday. Hang nine runs on a pitcher that’s owned them all season, take a six-run lead … and still lose.
In a season full of indigestion-inducing losses, this one is the worst.
Gotta have Campillo pitch today like he did Monday in Miami. I’m not convinced totally just yet this team should sell, but if it loses today, I think it will become sellers and Teixeira, Ohman and perhaps Kotsay will be packing their bags by week’s end.
On the other hand, win today, and that’s a 4-2 road trip with series victories against two of the teams ahead of you in the standings. Could be 5 1/2 games back by tonight … what’s a GM to do?
Bud.
http://braves.today.com
Great site, by the way!
And you guys are right … blowing the big lead sucks, but the Braves still left runners all over creating from the fifth to the eighth. Gotta start cashing in on more of those opportunities. Take away the two big innings — and certainly they cashed in during the ninth Friday and the fourth yesterday — but minus those two innings, the Braves have scored one run in 16 innings, in a park where runs are scored by the boatload.
Bud.
http://braves.today.com
I have to admit that I was half-rooting for the Braves to lose.
It’s just better at this point that we sell. That’s it.
Also, no mention of the one-run road loss streak? Isn’t that still going?
Of course it’s not impossible for the Braves to make a run, but the GM can’t base decisons on something that is possible but unlikely. I don’t think anyone WANTS to trade Teixera but we are operating on the assumption that he won’t be back here next year anyway. If there was a realistic shot at resigning him, I would definitely be against trading him.
If you look at what teams are giving up, it doesn’t bode well for a great return for Tex. The Yankees bascially gave up nothing for Nady and Marte. Teixera is certainly better then those two but he is also a free agent at the end of the year so you are basically renting him for two months. My feeling is that, given Bobby’s position, the Braves will trade Teixera only if they get overwhelmed by an offer, which I don’t think they will.
Boyer is a piece of work. I know he has pitched a lot and there is a tendency to blame overwork when he has a game like today but, really, his problems seems to come in certain (close game)situations. If he was struggling every game, I would attribute it to overwork. But I don’t think he should get a pass. He just isn’t that good and cannot make good pitches when he needs to as he admits. This has been the problem all year, including early in the season. Maybe he will get better with more experience but he has blown numerous games; six losses out of the bullpen is a lot. You could argue that Boyer is nearly as responsible for the Braves problems as Francoeur (well, no, I won’t go that far.)
The road streat is 25 and counting. This could go on for years.
#44
It could be argued that Francouer has played as bad in all three facets of the game in the last 2 months as bad as any regular major leaguer in the last 25 years.
His defense, baserunning and hitting has been unprecedentedly atrocious. Plus he’s a whiny baby primadonna.
He deserves all this and more and until he listens to coaching and like Tiger Woods did, completely tears apart and rebuilds his swing, he is doomed to failure.
That pitch he swung at in the dirt late in the game yesterday was absolutely the mark of a player that has literally NO clue about what he’s doing and that baserunning blunder was apropos of his apathy for what’s going on.
Jeff, growing a beard isn’t the answer. It’s going to take a lot of hard work and mental focus, which you may or may not have.
Jeffy is absolutely guessing right now. There is nothing wrong with being a guess hitter, as long as your guess are tempered with some sort of reason. Jeff isn’t looking for a pitch or a location. He’s choosing swing or don’t swing.
I also think the beard says a lot. McCann added a toe-tap to his swing and had success, so Jeffy added one. McCann grew a beard, so Jeffy grew one. Someone needs to tell him that the difference between the two guys from Gwinnett County isn’t a toe-tap and a beard. Putting a spoiler on your Honda Civic doesn’t turn it into a Ferrari.
Ron, the Rockies before August last year weren’t any better than the Braves have been so far this year, and on paper the Braves have as much or more talent. Of course we need some major changes, but if we can manage to turn a few guys around, get healthier and avoid any more injuries, then we have as good a shot as they did. Which still isn’t saying all that much, but it is something to hold onto.
Marc, I agree for the most part, but for better or worse I don’t have to think about the game like a GM, I can think about it like a fan.
I wouldn’t blame Frank Wren for dealing Tex, Ohman and/or Kotsay if he makes that decision, but I will blame fans that don’t support their team. You guys are almost starting to sound worse than Phillie fans.
I know this is not the popular opinion, but I really think we need to sign Tex now for as many years as he wants.
You’ve got to have somebody to build around and Chipper is not long for the league.
Tex may not be Pujols, but he’s a solid professional who can hit cleanup for a decade. With Tex as a foundation, we can add and subtract as needed around him.
If we don’t build around Tex now, we’ll be looking for somebody to build around next year. And the next. And the next …